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Consulting fees - hourly rate

  • 1.  Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-14-2018 19:58

    I have been asked to do some consulting work. I am an academic statistician and I was planning to charge hourly fees. Does anybody know where I can find information about rates, or have any suggestions about current rates. I know there was an old survey about that on the newsletter of the Section, but it seems a bit outdated. Any fresh info would be welcome!

    Thank you in advance,
    Giovanni Petris



    ------------------------------
    Giovanni Petris, PhD
    Professor
    Director of Statistics
    Department of Mathematical Sciences
    University of Arkansas - Fayetteville, AR 72701
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-14-2018 21:04
    I'm sure you'll get a few dozen replies. I work in pharma. and you want to find out if the potential client needs a "bid" for the total amount you'll charge for the project or an hourly rate or some other arrangement. Based on my  limited prior experience with academic (vs. industry ) projects. if your project is from an academic institution, and say a grant funded by the government, then there is a "cap" on the hourly rate.

    ------------------------------
    Chris Barker, Ph.D.
    Consultant and
    Adjunct Associate Professor of Biostatistics


    ---
    "In composition you have all the time you want to decide what to say in 15 seconds, in improvisation you have 15 seconds."
    -Steve Lacy
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-14-2018 23:28
    I once heard the following rule of thumb, your daily (8hr) rate should be 2% of your regular salary. i. e. if you make 200k, you should charge 500$ per hour. You can charge more for time you are under oath, depositions and testimony.


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  • 4.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-14-2018 23:37

    No one on God's Green Earth will pay $4K per day for a statistical consultant.






  • 5.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 00:08
    I agree with David - I charge $5000/day if I am giving a deposition or in Court and anywhere from $250/hr (for a non-profit) up to $400/hr (for profit).

    -iea





  • 6.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 01:41
    Another rule of thumb is that a consultant will charge three times the hourly rate of a salaried person. If you take an annual gross salary and divide by 2000 hours, it gives the hourly salaried rate, approximately. E.g., for that $200K per year figure, the salary rate is $100/hour, so that person (or an equivalent) would charge a consulting rate of $300 per hour. The higher rates are justified because the private consultant covers everything from the fees (including health insurance, office space, supplies, conventions, keeping up with new methodology, time spent on marketing, on proposals and on introductory calls, bookkeeping, etc.).  Plus, the consultant sometimes takes a loss (non-paying client, hitting a budget cap, etc.).  And, the consultant charges only when they are working on the project-not for coffee breaks, not for checking and deleting spam email, not for hallway conversations, etc., all of which a salaried person is paid for. 

    As pointed out in this thread, higher rates are usually charged for legal work, with a surcharge (or higher rate) during testimony.  Sliding scales are common. 

    The salaried way and the consulting way are both good, just different. 

    Nayak


    Nayak L Polissar, PhD
    The Mountain-Whisper-Light Statistics
    1827 23rd Ave. East
    Seattle, WA 98112
    Tel. 206-329-9325
    Fax 206-324-5915
    polissar@u.washington.edu (for university affairs only) 









  • 7.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 03:27

    I must be in the wrong place because no way would anyone get that kind of money as a self-employed consultant in Australia, maybe PwC or Deloittes can charge like that but not independent consultants.  I have been doing this for 30 years or so.  Best one can hope for is AUD $1200 per day.






  • 8.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 07:38

    Hi Mark,

     

    It really depends on how you're charging. If you're charging the way that Nayak suggested (only for hours actually worked), it's not uncommon to charge the way she suggested (about 3*(comparable annual salary/2000)/hr). Also, expert witness work is a whole different animal. You're actually given more credibility on the stand the higher amount you charge, so it creates a weird economic paradox where people actually want to pay more for the same work (up to a point).

     

    However, if you're planning to do an engagement where you charge a straight 40 hrs/wk, it's expected that you'll be charging for coffee breaks, clearing e-mail, etc. In those cases, the 3x rule doesn't make as much sense. If I were doing a 6-month engagement at a full 40 hrs/week I'd probably charge something like 1.5x-2x (remembering that I have to cover my own medical, retirement/401k, etc).

     

    -Chris

     

     

    image001.png@01D2A3C8.B6215470

    Chris Holloman, PhD

    Chief Data Scientist

    614.523.3070 Ext. 215

    614.668.7894 (Mobile)

    cholloman@icct.com

    icctechnology.com

    image002.png@01D2A3C8.B6215470image003.png@01D2A3C8.B6215470

     






  • 9.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 08:14

    The way I worked out my first day rate 12 years ago was to work out how much it cost my employer to employ me (which is salary + benefits + oncosts) and divide that by the number of days I expected to be able to charge for bearing in mind that I needed days for holidays, training and own admin time.  So I used two denominators, 100 days and 150 days.  I recall my costs at the time was £100k so that gave me a range £600 - £1000 per day to start with.

     

    Nigel Marriott CStat

    Independent Statistician

     

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  • 10.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 08:58
    Industries like pharma companies might be willing to pay more than academic researchers or non-profits. NIH caps the consultant fees and so one doesn't get paid as much when consulting for projects with their funding. UNICEF and WHO have standard rates that are lower than the rates qouted by some of those responding to these posts.

    Sowmya R Rao





  • 11.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 10:50
    I should add that the 2% of academic salary per day is for academics consulting for industry. It would be different for full time consultants. Most academics are only allowed to consult 8 hours a week so their time is a limited resource. I haven’t had a great deal of trouble getting this more or less.

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  • 12.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 13:01
    I have charged 1000$ hour for depositions, they are very stressful, so I prefer to be well compensated, the three lawyers sitting next to me are making more in total, why should the singer make less then the accompianists.

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  • 13.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 13:04
    I get 600/hr, with few complaints, Note I am an academic with limited time to consult.


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  • 14.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 13:26
    I am sure it also depends on the number of years of experience one has. So, it is difficult to set a rate.





  • 15.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 15:40
    I agree with Mark. I have a figure that I obtained asking around years ago (I won't post it). It is the minimum amount  for which I would work, If a potential client asks for a lower rate, I typically just say 'No', that it isn't worth my time, unless it is a fascinating project, and it usually isn't. If you don't have others to ask privately, I would take the old list, round up, and select the minimum for which I would work. 

    --
    David R. Bristol, PhD
    President, Statistical Consulting Services, Inc.
    1-336-293-7771





  • 16.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 15:41

    Hi Mark,

     

    That sort of rate ($500/h) is not unheard of where I am (Boston) for various professional services (law, accounting, engineering, etc.). I'd say it's only the beginning of the upper end of rates. I have no doubt that a statistical consultant in the right area and with the right clients could charge that in the right circumstance.

     

    As a reference point, rates at premier law firms in Boston are above $1,500 per hour. Expertise doesn't come cheap, nor should statistical consultants sell themselves short.

     

    Best regards,

     

    Greg

     

     

     

    Please note that I check email once a day and strive to return all messages by the end of the next business day. If urgent, please call or text me at 857.636.1694.

     

    -- 
    Gregory Csikos,
    CPA, CFE, GStat
    www.csikoscpa.com | greg@csikoscpa.com

    139A Charles Street, Suite 249

    Boston, MA 02114

    P: 857.636.1694
    F: 857.201.3202


    This e-mail and the documents accompanying it contain information which is confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named in this transmission. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me by telephone immediately and promptly delete this email from your computer.

     






  • 17.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 16:08
    Oh, there are people out there who would pay it. I've heard stories (in person, not just hearsay) of a "I don't really want to do this, go away" rate of $600, which the client accepted and paid without question. I hear the going rate around here for industry consulting is $250.





  • 18.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 18:15
    The 2% figure comes from an article from the business school, you are allowed to consult one day a week and you cannot more than double your salary. I dont think outside consulting is worth it for a full time academic unless they are very well paid. You are better off writing papers at night(or spending time with your kids), I ussually get 600/hr, but now I do very little consulting because I dont need the money and it gets in the way of playing the banjo. However it is fun and you get a good idea of the statistical issues that industry finds important. Hope this helpful.

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  • 19.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 12:14
    My apologies, Giovanni.  I didn't realize that you were not on our thread.  Below is an exchange between myself and a fellow ASA member.  I hope it helps you decide.  You'll have to read the bottom of our thread first to follow it.

    On Wed, Aug 15, <g class="gr_ gr_232 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="232" data-gr-id="232">2018</g> at 12:03 PM, Chris <chris.barker@barkerstats.com> wrote:
    typical rates in pharma are double to  quadruple the $75, and that is even for statisticians contracting through large "CRO's" or an agency where the CRO/agency  cut of the hourly can be 25-50%.
     
    When clients ask about my rate, they all like to hear that I have some flexibility. my regular rate is $225/hour. I explain that I will be glad to tell them the total amount of the project per se (I give a $ figure, not the number of hours).  And eventually someone will post in the ASA community about a retainer.  A retainer arrangement makes sense when the client is say, overseas, and there may be a risk the client won't pay. basically I ask for 40 to 80 hours up front deposited to my account at a discounted rate, of say $175 (so an upfront of $7000  or so).  One bills against the retainer and sends the client an invoice as to how much is billed against the retainer. One arranges for a "replenishment" of the retainer to keep the account at $7K - AND the plus for the client at the end of the project any amount left in the retainer is returned to the client. so far no client has asked for the return of the remaining amount. 
     
    Chris Barker, Ph.D.
    Adjunct Associate Professor of Biostatistics - UIC-SPH
    and
    President and Owner
    Statistical Planning and Analysis Services, Inc.
    www.barkerstats.com
    415 609 7473 
    skype: barkerstats




    From: Janelle Gagnon via American Statistical Association <Mail@ConnectedCommunity.org>
    To: chris.barker@barkerstats.com 
    Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 6:42 PM
    Subject: RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    The following message has been sent to you in response to your eGroup message

    Message From: Janelle L. Gagnon 

    Hi Chris, 
    I charge my clients on a sliding scale based on their category. For example, I will charge community nonprofits $75 an hour.  Larger organizations like academic institutions, I will charge $120 per hour.  I usually build a few "packages" for the clients to consider as a way to show them $120 will buy you X amount vs. $600 will buy X. Then the clients can figure out what's a priority based on the amount they are willing to pay.

    I live in Western Massachusetts so I imagine the rates will vary much based on the location.

    Warmest Regards,
    Janelle

    ------------------------------
    Janelle Gagnon, Ed.D.
    Laboratory Director & Instructor
    Mount Holyoke College
    Department of Psychology & Education
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------


  • 20.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 15:22

    Hi Giovanni,

     

    Simply put, your hourly rate is what the market can bear. There is no right number, except as high as possible.

     

    What the market will bear is based upon the options your customers have in finding someone different than you to do the same work. That depends on who your customer is, the work that is being done, where you are located (geography matters), and exceptional risks, costs, or annoyance involved in the work.

     

    You can ask other statistical consultants in the area what they charge, but in truth finding what you can charge is really an empirical process. You should quote a price high enough that some customers are turned off, but not so high that nearly all of them are. You won't get this information though until you have talked with at least a handful of prospective clients.

     

    Best regards,

     

    Greg

     

     

     

    Please note that I check email once a day and strive to return all messages by the end of the next business day. If urgent, please call or text me at 857.636.1694.

     

    -- 
    Gregory Csikos,
    CPA, CFE, GStat
    www.csikoscpa.com | greg@csikoscpa.com

    139A Charles Street, Suite 249

    Boston, MA 02114

    P: 857.636.1694
    F: 857.201.3202


    This e-mail and the documents accompanying it contain information which is confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named in this transmission. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me by telephone immediately and promptly delete this email from your computer.

     






  • 21.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 17:19
    Let me toss in a few thoughts to the many very interesting responses.

    1. Wages, at least in the United States, have been fairly stagnant for the past decade or two. So the survey published in the newsletter (Spring 2006, for those of you who were not aware) is probably more relevant than I would like to admit.

    2. If you are an independent consultant, you have probably already contacted a lawyer and an accountant. You are just as well trained as they are, so don't you dare charge less than they do.

    3. Multiple rates are worth considering. I charge $175 for most clients, $250 for special situations, and $100 for graduate students (because I once was as poor as they are).

    4. There's nothing wrong with increasing your rates every year or every other year as you gain more experience.

    5. Although I charge by the hour, there is a very strong case to be made for charging by the project. I won't summarize the arguments here, except to note that clients typically overestimate how much time it would take you to finish a project, so they are less likely to push back on quotes by the project.

    --
    Steve Simon, mail@pmean.com
    I'm blogging now! blog.pmean.com




  • 22.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 18:00

    On this thread there have been many comments similar to "lawyers, accountants, etc. charge over $500/hr, and statistical consultants are worth just as much."  I agree 100% however, I hope our field doesn't become money grubbing like the law field.  Let's face it, have you ever heard anyone say "lawyers are such wonderful people and I LOVE that they charged me $500 per hour - what a great value."  I know I have never iterated such a phrase.

    There have been many time where I have needed a lawyer but simply couldn't afford one.  There have been many times where I have wanted to go the World Series but I couldn't justify $1000-$2000 for a 3 hour event.

    Now I'm not saying that there shouldn't be times where 5-600 dollars per hour isn't justified, but I don't think it should be the norm.  Are we worth that kind of money, absolutely!!!  However maybe those higher rate should only come when we are 80-90% filled to capacity, like supply and demand.  Maybe more like a sliding scale, e.g. when I am at 0-10% filled, charge $100 per hour, thus attracting more clients.  When at > 10% thru 30% $175; >30% thru 50% $300, etc.

    There are some things in this society that are only for the elite - I sure hope our field doesn't become that.

    Michael J. Anderson






  • 23.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 18:27
    I generally aim for pricing by project impact - if the client is a multinational corporation / Fortune 500 etc, and your project saves them millions of dollars a year, that's a very different situation then helping a psych student with their thesis.  I try to work backwards from "client value" to get an hourly rate (for the clients that insist on hourly), although it can be really hard to estimate how much time a project will take.





  • 24.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 19:13
    My brother, in the computer field not statistics, used to consult.  His stated rate was $X, but he gave a 50% discount for paying within 3 weeks (or so...I don't remember the exact time frame--somewhere in the 2-4 wk range.)  It was a very effective technique for receiving prompt payments.

    I've heard of some who have a "cease work" clause, I believe, for long-term projects.  If a bill was not paid by the specified payment due date, then all forward progress on the project would be halted until the previous bill was paid.  On a short-term project, that might not matter.  It is amazing who doesn't want to pay once they have the results.

    I've also heard of consultants who charge $X/hr, but if a task takes what they themselves thinks is "too long," then they quietly just don't charge all the hours rather than cite a reduced charge rate.  That way, they don't set a precedent for a discounted rate.

    One project I worked on, both the client and I figured that it would take $80,000 -$100,000, but quite likely more.  We set a $50,000 limit on my time, just so they could keep tabs on how far I had gotten by then and be able to re-estimate the upper limit.  I finished the project, with superior documentation I might add, for under $40,000.  I had a devoted client after that.  Besides, the project was so much fun!

    Best,
    Katherine Monti






  • 25.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-15-2018 21:10
    I generally stay in fairly close contact with my clients and bill in what I call "bite-size chunks".  I generally send a bill around the same time that I email them an informal progress report.  Over more than a decade I only had one instance where something did not get paid.  And in that case he (an academic) made partial payment because his sponsor limited what he could pay and the project was "close to my heart" because it involved making wheelchairs easier to use.

    ------------------------------
    Emil M Friedman, PhD
    emilfriedman@gmail.com
    http://www.statisticalconsulting.org
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-16-2018 15:51

    Hi Michael,

     

    I am concerned that you're equating looking out for your own self-interest with the judgment-laden term "money grubbing." You deserve to be paid what you can get in the market. You shouldn't sell yourself short just to be likeable. You learn that very fast when you're in business for yourself (or even as an employee in a salary negotiation).

     

    As someone who is really in the compliance field just as lawyers are, I can say no one is truly ecstatic having to engage a CPA or lawyer. We're there to handle an obligation or a crisis. We're not there to make someone feel good, but if we're doing our job right, our value is in the relief (or mitigation) of pain and anxiety. You should equally not be concerned whether a client thinks you're a likeable person as a statistical consultant, just if they consider you a competent professional.

     

    Just because you didn't want to pay a lawyer's rates for advice doesn't mean the lawyer has any obligation to lower those rates to provide you with a service. I find that scientists (including statisticians) have a hard time understanding this concept, but not everyone should be your client nor are you obligated in any way to take on a client. If you're running your business correctly, you should be turning off or turning away a good proportion of your prospective clients based upon your rates.

     

    Best regards,

     

    Greg

     

     

     

    Please note that I check email once a day and strive to return all messages by the end of the next business day. If urgent, please call or text me at 857.636.1694.

     

    -- 
    Gregory Csikos,
    CPA, CFE, GStat
    www.csikoscpa.com | greg@csikoscpa.com

    139A Charles Street, Suite 249

    Boston, MA 02114

    P: 857.636.1694
    F: 857.201.3202


    This e-mail and the documents accompanying it contain information which is confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named in this transmission. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me by telephone immediately and promptly delete this email from your computer.

     






  • 27.  RE: Consulting fees - hourly rate

    Posted 08-18-2018 19:49

    Here are some additional considerations that enter into determining a reasonable and acceptable rate. 

    Let me preface these considerations by noting that my PhD is in Sociology, MA in Economics with three years of undergrad physics so my statistical training has been in the kinds of courses taught in engineering schools (engineering measurement), social statistics and econometric analysis rather than in a statistics or mathematics department.  So my comments may or may not be relevant to the more pure situation of starting to to consult from an academic statistical position where your role as analyst and as an indicative consultant for an outside client may focused on answering technical questions without developing a full understanding of context.

    Social justice & Inclusion.  If you are on the corporate side of an issue that requires statistical analysis, the going rates are much higher than if you are assisting a group of citizens or a non-profit that is challenging some corporate action.  If you want to be on the side of the people, my experience is that it does not pay enough to support regular practice.  The only situation where I have seen this work is if you are both an applied statistician and an attorney.  But, you can work in a few projects of this type if your university position or your corporate and government consulting practice is strong enough to enable taking a loss on these projects.  Often, if you are approached by a group of citizens or a non-profit or community group all they will have to offer is $3000 or $5000 plus expenses.  And you will be the only one or one of a few members of their team.  Typically, the corporate side will be thinking in terms of spending $500,000 to $1,000,000 or more on a combination of legal and expert analytic talent, just as a normal and expected price of doing business.  And their team will cover areas of concern in depth with excellent specialists so that every relevant area is covered by someone who is at the top of their form.  Sometimes the community group will offer only expenses, and that means expenses for a low-end hotel, discount airfare, and a small daily amount for meals.  So, if the technical issue in dispute has social justice aspects and you are concerned for inclusion and social justice in decision-making you will need to take these things into account.

     

    Corporate consulting.  This is where the money is.  It helps to understand the importance to the corporation of what is being contested – if something related to the core interests of a corporation is in dispute, what they are prepared to spend on a combination of legal talent and analytic talent is whatever it takes.  Also, they will commit funding with ease and if you report to an officer, they are able to make decisions and honor "handshake agreements" (followed up by a contract) to get you on the ground and running immediately and accommodate changes in scope.  However, if the issue is limited to technical concerns and does not have specific officer support, what they will expect to pay is much lower, managers are usually bound by rules and processing takes much longer.  Officers usually are something like princes – they can step outside the bureaucratic rules and make the paperwork flow overnight.  In the best corporate work situations, you report directly to an officer.  As has been pointed out on this thread earlier, when an assignment involves expert witnessing (or providing analytic support in a juridical situation) you are providing litigation support.  These situations work by (what, until you learn them are confusing)  legal rules that often contradict rules of science.  For example, any mistake in any part of your analysis – however irrelevant to your argument – may cause the whole analysis to be rejected by a judge or a hearing officer under the doctrine "falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus".  If this happens to you, you lose your credibility and your usefulness to the client.  Your personal risk is very high because the proceeding is not under science rules.  It may take three or five years to learn the tricks opposing lawyers use to undermine scientific testimony (and there is always a new trick to learn to be ready for) – but in juridical settings we learn through experience.  Under these conditions the client expects to pay a higher rate in recognition of your risk.

     

    Government consulting.   As noted earlier in this thread, there are often caps and limits.  So, for example, if you are charging $225 or $250 an hour for regular analytic work for corporations (and $350 or $450 for juridical work) you may find that city, state, or federal government will cap you at $175 an hour, $125 an hour or even as low as $75 an hour.

    Also, federal, state and local government will typically require you to follow federal expense guidelines, even though you are not a federal employee and are not entitled to government employee discounts on travel.  Usually they will whatever it costs for airfare or a rental car.  But where you lose is on the cost of hotel nights, meals and incidentals.  So, your pay will likely be low and you will have to pay about half of your hotel bills (they will pay up to the government room rate plus taxes on that lower amount).   Always ask if the hotel will permit you a government rate even though you do not have a government ID, because you are doing statistical work on government service.  Every once in a while a hotel will grant you the government rate, especially in the Washington, DC area.

    When your are reporting to a seasoned government administrator, they will suggest that you build travel costs into your fees to escape the travel regulations.  This helps them and it helps you.  So, why consult for government rather than corporations?  Partly because you can do some meaningful technical social justice work and get paid for it, though the work will be highly rule-bound in nature since it is work within  governmental terms and conditions.  But also because you can sometimes develop long-term relationships for projects that will keep presenting you with work over several years if you are consistently reliable and faithful to the mission of the agency and its managers.  

    In government consulting, if you are doing work related to defense it pays way over what Housing and Urban Development or Health and Human Services or the Department of Energy pay.  This can make difference in the kind of hotel you can stay at and what you clear after expenses.  Government is sort of in the middle – it often does not have the resources, speed or flexibility of corporations, but the people are good, the projects are sound and you can feel good about it because the outcome of your work is of benefit to society and the people.



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    Hugh (Gil) Peach
    H. Gil Peach & Associates, LLC
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