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Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

  • 1.  Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 09:20

    I only consult parttime and for only about 5 years.  So I would be very interested in hearing about the experiences of our professional statistical consultants who have been doing consulting for a long time.  I am sure everyone has experienced this.  For me it has only happened twice.  First I will tell my story.  Then I would be interested in how other experiences and how you have handled it.

    One time I saw an ad for someone with expertise in adaptive designs.  This was a company that wanted to produce software for adaptive designs and they wanted someone to advisr and critique their approach.  So it appeared that this would be a long term project through their development process.  So they said that before we start their programmer wanted to ask me a few questions.  Well it turned into about a dozen questions that I answered as best I could.  After that I never heard from them again.  So it appears that it was a rouse to pump me for information.

    In the second case someone came on the internet looking for a statistical consultant to help him with a repeated measures regression problem (longitudinal data) where there seemed to be issues regarding heteroscadasticity and variable selection.  I offered to take it on and was quickly sent the data.  There was no formal contract nor any confidentiality agreement.  But we made an agreement through an email exchange negotiating my fee. I was apprehensive about this one because it was strictly an internet exchange.  I new very little about the client and had little background on the problem and what was previously attempted.  It seemed evident that someone had alrady done some analysis and hit a road block.
    So I decided to start the project.  I went through the data and found some errors in the data that needed correcting.  We had a few interactions and I gave him summary statistics and an estimated correlation matrix.  Then I requested payment for the time I already put in before completing the model.  Then I stopped hearing from him.  I had this fear that I would spend a lot of time completing the job and then not get paid anything for it.  Seems that I was right.

    In addition to hearing your stories I would like to know what you think of an idea I have.  As a community of statistical consultants we have opportunities to help each other out.  What do you think about creating a list of clients to watch out for?  Maybe this can help prevent situations where we get ripped off. 
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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 2.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 09:59
    A few quick comments. I offer the first hour of consulting for free. I do a lot of this, and I figure it is a way to build up good will for my practice. Quite honestly, I don't want to bill for only an hour of work anyway.

    As far as the second example goes, you can ask for money in advance. I don't, but I know that others do.

    I don't think it's a good idea to list "bad clients" because of liability issues.

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    Stephen Simon
    Independent Statistical Consultant
    P. Mean Consulting
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  • 3.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 10:16
    Well, I disagree on several counts.  Statistical consulting is a professional service and there is value to our advice.  So even one hour of consulting is worth money.  I am sure that those who make this their livelihood probably feel more strongly about this then I do.  Regrading the second example I said that we agreed to a fee in email discussions prior to starting the work.  I don't plan to sue but I have grounds in this case (It was only 5 hours of work but could have been a lot more if I finished the project).

    If you enjoy consulting for free that is your choice but it doesn't mean that others should.  Regarding the list I have some reservations about that myself.  But these people also could be sued and there is no legal liability when the story is completely true.  do you really think these "crooks" would sue?

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 4.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 10:21

    Just to add another comment about your response, I often will not charge for an initial consultation (which can be a hour or more of my time).  I think this is often fair when there is an expectation of a long term consultation.  I do not do it to build good will.  I do it because it is approriate.
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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 5.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 09:59
    I have also been consulting for about 5 years.  When I am first contacted by a potential client, I offer 30 minutes of free consulting/discussion just to learn about the problem and to suggest a general approach to solving it.  After that short discussion I can decide whether I am interested in the problem and both sides can decide whether I am the right person for the job. At that point I give a rough estimate of # hours required and discuss fees.  Sometimes 30 min is all the person needs, so they go away happy and I don't get involved in a boringly simple job.  So far this has worked well, but I must say that I am very specialized (spatial statistics) and so only get calls from known colleagues or from their referrals.
    Where this system doesn't work so well is on grant proposals.  I have agreed to help write several proposals, knowing that there was no guarantee that the grant would be funded, although I was written in for some % of my time.  Twice I tried to straighten out a poorly written proposal (taking more time) and both times I never heard back.  Since these were academics, I could find them and ask, but they just said they hadn't heard back yet.  Eventually they probably were denied funding (giving them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't just drop me from the proposal).   After those bad experiences, I now only agree to work on proposals from close colleagues whom I trust and who have a good track record of getting funded.  This means that I do the up front work for free. I would never charge for that work and then not be put on the grant proposal - I would rather invest some time in return for interesting funded work in the future.

    For others who respond to this question, I would like to hear how you handle charging and collecting for grant proposal work versus standard consulting jobs.

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    Linda Pickle
    StatNet Consulting, LLC
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  • 6.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 10:22
    I have had four instances since 1972.
    1) a client's family lost all their assets in a military coup in their home country.
    I did not receive pay for about 5 out of 20 hours.

    2) I subcontracted on a government contract.  A court ruled that since the client had submitted the expense to the government and been paid that the client owed me the money.  However, the sheriff never seized any assets.  Out $750.

    3) A former classmate failed to pay for 7 hours out of 16.

    4) A federal agency kept insisting on further analyses on a fixed price contract.  They kept wanting to try models seeking "significance" in explaining a percentage change of one quarter of 1 percent in a DV.


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    Arthur Kendall
    Social Research Consultants
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  • 7.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 13:37

    I also give 30 minutes free consultation, not because I like giving away my time, but because it usually results in a job.

    For grants, I insist on getting paid for the time I spend working on the submission. Then, if it succeeds, that's extra.


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    Peter Flom
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  • 8.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 01:08

    I was stiffed once in seven years. I was introduced to a potential client by a third-party, with whom I had worked and still do, who was doing some non-statistical consulting on the project. A statistician's input on design of the study and protocol development was needed and the company was in "crisis mode". At the end of our first teleconference, the client (a small pharmaceutical company) asked the other party to write the contract for me, but they refused, as it was not part of their assignment. The client said that they would write the contract. It seemed obvious that there would be a contract soon. At the end of the month, I sent an invoice and received no response. For the next three months, I re-sent the invoice, and received no response. The next month I finally received a response, unfortunately stating that they had no intention of paying, as it was "business development". Fortunately the amount was relatively small, so I did not continue the discussion. I would love to see a list of such clients, but I realize that there would be legal issues

    I learned that a client's crisis is not my crisis and now I don't work for a new client without a contract, although I occasionally offer a few ideas as BD to see if we are both interested in continuing. I have a skeleton contract to use when the client wants work done before contract is complete, essentially just an agreement that they will pay me for my work; fortunately I only had to use it once, covering the period until their legal department  finalized a complete contract.

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    David Bristol
    Statistical Consulting Services, Inc.
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  • 9.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 07:37
    I would like to expound upon my idea to list clients that have failed to pay statistical consulting fees.
    This would just be a list consisting of those that violated a written or verbal agreement.  Although there might be concern that some clients on the list would sue for libel, I don't think there is anything illegal about it.  Communities have and often exercise their right to produce lists of convicted child molesters living in their neighborhoods. They can do this because they are just providing factual information about the person in order to alert members of the community with children.  It seems to me that the list I proposed is similar in nature.  The information is factual as the consulting statistician had an agreement on fees for services and the fees were either not paid or not paid in full.  So even though it might hurt the reputation of the client it is factual and hence not libel.  I would really like to hear the opinion of an attorney on this.

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 10.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 07:49

    I belong to Freelancers Union, and they have such a list, although (AFAIK) very few of the members of Freelancers U are statisticians
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    Peter Flom
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  • 11.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 08:38
    I don't think a list of bad payers is a good idea.  There often is two sides to the story and we will only be getting one side.  I shared my story since it did occur once and actually has occurred twice to me but over a 7 year period but for relatively small amounts of money.  I thought it was interesting to hear the various stories - apparently we all remember quite clearly when this happens.  It's quite memorable. 

    I thought it was interesting to hear that others have also gotten stiffed and what some of us do to make sure this does not happen again.  I calculated the amount of money I have lost and it has come to about 0.25%, which is not enough for me to worry about.

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    Rocco Brunelle
    Senior Statistician
    Bowsher Brunelle Smith LLC
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  • 12.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 08:53
    So far there have been very few responses regarding the list of "bad' clients.  I don't think there is a serious legal issue.  I see from Rocco's response and the response of others that some of you don't see being stiffed as a big deal.  To my way of thinking the list simply tells us the names of clients that did not complete their obligation to pay.  I imagine in some instances the client has a reason why they didn't pay and it may even be a good reason.  I don't care.  I just take the list as information that I could use to decide whether or not I would ever want to work for that client.  It could be a useful device for screening potential clients.  apparently other organizations such as the Freelancers use such a list.  So maybe it is not such a bad idea.  i welcome the thoughts of others.

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 13.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 09:18

    For me, I know the kinds of things I could do to prevent ever being stiffed (retainer up front, contract, strict rules on no pay = no play) but those are exactly the kinds of things that get in the way of the relationships I'm trying to develop with my clients and are also time-consuming and tedious.  I'd also probably not post anyone's name, leaving open the possibility they'll come back as clients when personnel, political, or financial changes have taken place.

    I'd rather take a few lumps on the back end and have the easy, back-and-forth, flexibility that make partnerships that last.  In my case, my clients are often small companies who themselves are under periodic cash flow crises, so it's much different from those of you dealing with large government, corporate or educational institutions.   

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    Bridget Bly
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  • 14.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 10:57
    So Bridget given that you don't use a strategy to avoid getting stiffed and you have small company clients that may have trouble affording your services, can you tell us about any bad experiences.  No mentioning names of course.

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 15.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 10:14
    Bridget summarized most of my attitude towards this subject.  A good trusting relationship with the client is needs to be nurtured.  I bill in "bite size chunks" in order to avoid nasty surprises to me or to the client.  The definition of "bite size" is vague and depends on my perception of the client.

    I vaguely remember one client paying only part of a bill because we went over a budget that he hadn't told me about.  But it was only a few hundred dollars and his project (improving the ergonomics or efficiency of something for paraplegics) was something dear to my heart.

    I don't think I'd ever want to report a client who did not pay for the last chunk because, as someone said in another post, there are often two sides to the story.  Perhaps that work did not meet his or her needs.  Did I misunderstand those needs?  Whose fault was that?  If it was mine then I would feel uncomfortable about being paid.

    As for initial discussions, I keep track of the time and bill for it if the project goes ahead.  But if we spend a little time discussing a project and decide not to go through with it, I don't send a bill.  If a contractor comes over to my house, looks over my kitchen, quotes me a price, and I decide that not to go ahead, I don't expect to get a bill, so why should I behave differently towards my clients?

    One point that hasn't been mentioned is to try as hard as possible to agree on what the client can expect.  We need to agree that the objective is to determine whether the data support his contention and that we cannot promise that that our analysis will support his contention.  Back when I was an employee, a manager said, "I heard your XYZ project was a failure."  I said, "No.  It was a success.  I clearly showed that XYZ was no better than the control and that merely making the substitution would waste a lot of money."  (But I was able to explain what might be tried to improve it.)

    One client was an attorney defending someone on a capital murder charge.  I made sure to tell him up front that I could not promise that my work would help his client until after I saw and analyzed the evidence.  I also told him that if I were called to testify I would tell the truth as I saw it and if he wanted to control what I said then he would be better off hiring someone else.  He assured me that he did not want a "whore" (his exact word) and we went ahead. 
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    Emil Friedman
    www.statisticalconsulting.org
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  • 16.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-09-2011 12:42
    In my meager experience, I have been able to rely on two things: client reputation and contracts. In one case, I knew my client from my adviser and had done some work at his site under his supervision.  That turned into relationship that only ended with his death.  We only had one formal understanding, a promissory note for back pay when his business was bad.  In the other cases, I had a contract at the clients' insistence.  They needed protections like confidentiality agreements and we all benefited from having all of the parameters defined by the contracts.  The personal relationships were a bonus.

    I'm reminded of the contracts I've made to purchase houses.  They're written like the parties are the most evil people on the planet.  Nonetheless, the parties had no intention of foul play.  The contracts served to prevent conflicts by providing clarity about everyone's responsibilities.

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    Charles Coleman
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  • 17.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 10:29
    I have been consulting privately for six years now and I have never had this problem.  There have been a couple of times I had late payments, but never a complete failure to pay.  Here's what I do: when a potential client contacts me for consulting, I listen to what their need is then I tell them if I think I can help or not.  If I can and they are interested in my services, then I send them 2 documents, a mutual nondisclousre agreement and a contract.  The nondiscolsure agreement is standard jargon regarding the practice of confidientality on both sides.  I tell the clients that this is in their best interest as it protects them from having their data shared with others.  The contract is a fairly standard documents that indicates the start date and end date of the contract, the requested services, the hourly rate and if needed a maximum charge for services.  Most importantly, I add that the expected period ffrom invoice to payment is 30 days.  Any outstanding payment after 30 days is subject to a 10% late fee.  I give them a opportunity to review it and agree to modifications prior to signing.  Once it is signed, it is a binding contract.  I NEVER take on a project without these 2 documents.

    In the rare case where the payment has been late, I send a notice alerting them that they are late and payment is due immediately.  Usually they pay right away and blame someone in accounting for dropping the ball.  Once I had a client tell me that the late fee was too steep.  I politely agreed and suggested it was harsh in order to act as a deterent for being late and that they had agreed to the late fee options in the contract.  Then I offered to waive the late fee (only $200) if payment was made within 5 days.  I was paid the next day.

    I only charge for my time on a project and there has been only once, recently, when a client got mad because I charged them for 1 hour more than they were "expecting" (although we did not agree on how long it would take).  After a couple of rounds of emails, I conceeded telling them that it was more important to me that they had been happy with my services and that I knew that had gotten the best consulting and analyses they could have gotten in the tight timeline we there given to perform the tasks.    They paid.

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    Susan Spruill
    Statistical Consultant
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  • 18.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 11:07
    I find your approach a little unusual.  I almost always get a contract and a non-disclosure agreement wiyh my clients but it is always the client that has the legal documents and wants it as much or more than I do.  I don't like the idea of including a late fee for late payment.  I feel that comes across as being heavy-handed. Repeated prodding is my approach.  I find that if a client is paying for my services they will be on time or at least close to it.  I also usually bill through an invoice that I prepare (although in some cases I am asked to use the clients invoice form).  The invoice lists topics worked on and hours spent.  The hourly rate and bill total are also included.  Recently I had a friendly dispute with a client who is a good friend of mine, co-author on a paper and former employee under my direction.  She gets the invoices first for approval before I send them to the parent company.  I charged a few hours for reading materials that were sent to me to help me on the project.  I felt the time spent was part of my service and she felt differently, saying it did not directly relate to a deliverable.  So in a case like that I take the view that the customer is right and I took those hours out of the invoice rather than going through a prolonged argument.

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 19.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 10:04

    I've been consulting for 17 years and have had one clear instance of client welching. I performed some analytical tasks and made some recommendations, but throughout the process, I was kept fairly out of the loop with respect to the project's long term objectives. Well, it seemed my "client" botched up the project planning, and of course needed a scapegoat, and why not the consultant? He refused to pay my fees, so I complained to his boss, to no avail. Since I had alot of work with this company (but not this particular client), I chose not make a fuss about it. I obviously never worked with this individual again.

    Another instance, which may be more common, occurred when a person I knew referred me to a prospective client who proceeded to call me up several times, ask a number of questions, and eventually after several hours of discussion, requested a proposal. I never heard from him again.

    I think there's an art to the consultant's craft that one must learn: identifying possible problem clients up front and avoid working with them, and  answering questions honestly without giving away free consulting services. I wish I could give a definitive solution to this problem, but I'm afraid you'll have to be burned atleast once before you develop your own intuition about unethical "clients".
     
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    Sebastian Brandimarte, Ph.D
    The Brandimarte Group, Inc.
    brandimartegroup.com
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  • 20.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 12:33

    I have been an independent consultant for about 7 years after retiring from big Pharma and getting stiffed is part of the job.  The trick is not to get stiffed for too much money.  I typically do some initial general consulting for free (i.e. no data or analyses - just suggestions) but do not start working until I have a signed confidentiality agreement and a contract about costs.  Now the trick I use is to invoice each month.  I may estimate the cost for a project but I bill by the hour.  So if they are slow in payment of an invoice or refuse to pay then I stop working right away.  I had one customer that wanted to renegotiate my bill since they thought it was too much money.  If I recall we are talking about $2000, so it wasn't a lot of money.  I refused to take less.  They had my analysis but I told them that since they did not pay for it I would not defend it or do any more work for them.  I personally like clients that pay on time and appreciate my work.  The other clients I can do without.


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    Rocco Brunelle
    Senior Statistician
    Bowsher Brunelle Smith LLC
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  • 21.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 13:18

    I have been "stiffed" by two clients who went out of business, a total amount into 5 figures.  To be straight, one of them was a start-up and I knew it was a risk and accepted the work on a basis of "we'll pay you if this works out".   At the time I wasn't giving up other work to do it, so I took that risk.  I got paid something for a while and then it became clear things weren't going well.  Sometimes you lose those ones.  

    The other company was badly managed and I knew it because I worked with them regularly over the course of a few years, so the bankruptcy was not a huge shock.  Since I got paid for all but the last 6 months or so, I counted myself lucky not to be in deeper.  I guess my take-away was, trust your gut:  if a company seems badly run, don't let the bills run up too far.  

    I should add that I have established relationships with a smallish group of consulting, product development, and market research firms and consult for them on an ongoing basis.  I don't use a contract, but apart from the bankruptcies, I have never gone unpaid.  

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    Bridget Bly
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  • 22.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 13:27

    I've never been stiffed, and the reason is that I almost always require a retainer agreement up front for an estimated number of hours.    It's not that I'm that worried about getting stiffed, but rather that I don't want to waste my time trying to get the money later.   

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    [David] [Afshartous]
    [Research Associate Professor]
    [Vanderbilt University, Department of Biostatistics]
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  • 23.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 13:38
    My experience of this nature was with a client for whom I initially designed an experiment.  The data was collected using an expensive analytical chemistry machine (which the client had to buy).  When I got the data I could see there were serious calibration problems with the machine.  I shared this bad news, but worse, the client could not figure out how to fix the problem (maybe later this changed, but I don't know) and initially did not want to pay me for anything.  The question I was asked was "What did I get for this money?"  Eventually I got about 2/3 of what I thought I should get and let it go - moved on to more lush pastures.  The client called back some months later and wanted to re-engage; I found a reason to be too busy for it. 

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    Daniel Jeske
    University of California Department of Statistics
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  • 24.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 13:33

    Yes I am not surprised that many of you have experiences where you aren't paid or don't get what you agreed on. But it bothers me to hear you say it is part of the business. I think there are ways to suspect and avoid such clients without getting stiffed. 
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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 25.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 16:13
    I also ask for a retainer before I start work and feel that is my way of avoiding potential 'bad' clients. If the client doesn't want to pay the retainer, I probably don't want them as a client. The only client I've been stiffed by was a Phd student, who I billed about 1/3 of the work completed (out of sympathy for her starving student status). I only lost $300, but the lesson was to not work for clients that can't afford me, unless I plan on doing the work for free. ------------------------------------------- Colleen Kelly Principal Consultant Kelly Statistical Consulting -------------------------------------------


  • 26.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 16:34

    I have never been unpaid for my work.  I attract clients both locally & on-line, so I'm careful with my up-front communications.  I always ask to see the research materials and a sample of the data, if there is any yet.  I spend about 30 minutes looking through their materials and writing a brief outline of what services I could offer, quoting an approximate number of hours and requesting a retainer.  The percent of the total quote I ask for as a retainer depends on how well I know the client, which is often not at all.  I then bill monthly and put the work on pause if it goes unpaid.

    I think the initial 30 minutes is a good investment for me as I only want to work with clients that I am excited about and who can commit to working with me.

    In terms of the grant work - I offer two separate services.  Grant preparation services, which is a flat fee that I charge in order to write or consult on the quantitative portion of the grant.  And then the analysis services, which begins once the grant has been funded.  In my experience, this keeps us all on very clear and good terms during the course of the grant writing.  And leaves us both with lots of options depending on what the outcome of the grant turns out to be.  I have written grants that I have not done the analysis for and vice versa.

    So far this has worked well for me, but I would be interested in continuing to hear the experiences of other consultants as the posts so far have been really helpful on this topic.
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    Heather Krause
    Data Science for the Nonprofit World
    Datassist.ca
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  • 27.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 18:05

    I am happy to report that I have never been stiffed. I think the reason is that my work has usually been with larger, established companies. I'm talking about medium to large pharma and research organizations or medium to large consulting outfits
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    Carlos Alzola
    President
    Data Insights Inc.
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  • 28.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-08-2011 18:30

    I have a number of very reputable clients that I use on a regular basis and most new clients are very reputable as well.  But I am always willing to take on small projects from strangers.  Sometimes they work out and occasionally they don't.  i am careful not to do a lot of work without getting paid.  I don't ask for retainers but will bill early on after a significant amount of work has been completed.
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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 29.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 08:04

     I haven't been stiffed by a client.  One client was very delinquent and unpleasant about paying, so I visited
     small claims and had a process server give them the paperwork.
    I got a check by federal express the next day.

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    Chris Barker, Ph.D.
    President - San Francisco Bay Area Chapter of the American Statistical Association
    www,barkerstats.com
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  • 30.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 10:27

    I have provided SAS consulting services for over 25 years. I had one client seveeral years ago that was months late in paying. I did ask an attorney for advice on what to do. My attorney felt that the hassle involved plus his fees would not be worth it. Eventually the client did pay. I never sought more work with that group. Because I had contracts with other groups in the same large organization, I did not want to get a reputation as a litigious consultant so I was prepared to let the issue drop. I feel that it's important to have a contract, and I did have a contract with the aforementioned client. A contract is also important to my errors and omissions insurance provider.

    Without a contract, I think you have to rely on your instincts at that first meeting. Michael, it sounds like at the beginning you accurately called the situation with the client that stiffed you. The best advice I can think of is to try to find out about a new client from others who have worked with the client before or know the client and to trust your gut. This is obviously more difficult if the communication is solely via email. In that situation, get on the phone and introduce yourself. You can learn a lot by having a verbal conversation with the client.

    I am not in favor of creating a list of "bad" entities. IMO, this is too subjective. Our group does not know all sides of the story, and I feel this has the potential to create a lot of ill-will toward the group. For example, I have successfully worked for people who others found impossible to deal with and vice versa.

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    Michele Burlew
    Episystems, Inc.
    www.episystems.com
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  • 31.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 10:51
    Thank you Michele for the good advice.  I also see that there are some good reasons not to create a "bad" clients list.  More importantly if the responses to this thread are representative of the feelings of the eGroup than a large majority are against the list and that should decide it.

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 32.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 11:06
    Two interesting aspects that are equally important to being stiffed are consults on court cases:

    (1) How were the results of your consultation used by the client?  In litigation, this is critically important.  Bad clients can pay on time in full, but misuse the information you provide them.

    (2) what happens if you consult for a company, and what you find is damaging to their side? Obviously, there are confidentiality agreements you must honor. 

    The key element in both of these situations from a legal perspective is discoverability.  If you write a report for the client, then the other side of a lawsuit has the right to see this information.  You are not the one to provide it to the other side, unless expressly written into your contract, but your client must.

    Best wishes,

    Jon Shuster

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    Jon Shuster
    University of Florida
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  • 33.  RE:Have you ever been stiffed by a cleint?

    Posted 10-10-2011 11:49
    I have twice been involved as a statistics expert in class action suits.  In both cases I had to give depositions.  In the first case I was an employee of the device company being sued and the opposing attorneys requested my deposition which amounted to what I knew and when I knew about the reliability of the product.  This was a product that was cleared by the FDA and had been in production for a while but was withdrawn due to a number of complaints.  It seemed that they were trying to take the position that the product was faulty and that the manufacture knew that long before they withdrew the product.  As I see it, it was a borderline call. These product all have some failure rate and in this case the failure rate was slightly higher than typical for this type of device.  Also the company clearly took the product off the market as soon as it was clear that a particular mode of failure seemed to be occuring frequently.  I was scheduled to be called as a witness at trial but as so many of these cases go the company eventually settled out of court.

    In the second case I was hired by a law firm to be an expert witness on the failure of a particular device.  I had no relationship with the device company or the women involved in sueing the company.  I was paid to review the case and when I was convinced that the manufacturer had acted badly given the high number of complaints I wrote an opinion and was later deposed by the defense.  The attorney's that hired me paid for my time on the case and the defense attorney's paid for my time at the deposition.


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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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