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Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

  • 1.  Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 00:58
    Hi everyone,

    The proposal for the JSM 2012 panel session titled "Solo Consulting: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" has been submitted to the JSM organizers.  The session will be chaired by myself and include the following panelists:
    1) William B. Fairley, 2) David Bristol, 3) MaryJo Smith, 4) Dennis Sandell, 5) Michael Chernick and 6) Heather Krause.  Thank you to all panelists and also to all of the consultants who provided feedback on this session.  Several consultants would have liked to be on the panel and perhaps still can do so should any of the current panelists find that they can no longer attend JSM 2012.  

    It seems like we are all ready to proceed with the organized discussion themes.  (Several spontaneous discussions took place already on themes such as charge out rate, whether to incorporate a consulting business or not, whether to pursue biostatistical consulting, whether to become familiar with FDA regulations, and so on.)

    This week's theme is "3 Things Solo Consultants Can Do to Fight Isolation".   Whether or not you are a solo consultant, you are invited to e-mail the group with a list of 3 things solo consultants can do to fight professional and/or personal isolation.  Please share with the group how these 3 things helped you personally to feel more connected with your peers and the real world. 

    As we are just getting this started, not all wrinkles are sorted out.  We need to find a way to communicate that will not interfere with the "technical side" of our Section on Statistical Consulting.  Heather Krause has suggested BaseCamp or a Wiki page.  I am in favour of either.  Please make your thoughts known.  We also need you to provide topics for future organized discussions and even moderate those discussions.  Hopefully, we can learn how to best do these things as we move along.   

    Kind regards,

    Isabella

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    Isabella Ghement
    Ghement Statistical Consulting Co.
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  • 2.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 01:42
    Professional: 1-2 statistical friends with whom consulting issues (client problems, statistical topics,...) can be shared
    Professional: Activity in ASA Chapter (officer, committee, presenter,...)
    Professional: Networking (egroups, LinkedIn groups,...)
    Personal: Have and cultivate outside interests (family / relationships / friends, clubs, hobby, etc.)
    Personal: Chores and errands (e.g. go to bank instead of on-line)- especially for those who live alone

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    David Bristol
    Statistical Consulting Services
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  • 3.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 05:52
    David Bristol wrote (in part)


    Professional: 1-2 statistical friends with whom consulting issues (client problems, statistical topics,...) can be shared

    This gives me an idea for another use for this group, partly OT for this discussion: We could share clients. Each of us may have specialties or areas within statistics where we know relatively little (for instance, I work a lot with people writing dissertations, but I don't do FDA/RCT work).  Or we may have times when we are too busy for another client.

    Is there a way to use this group to refer clients?

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    Peter Flom
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  • 4.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 06:39

    I think sharing clients is an excellent idea.  Perhaps we should each post our specific area of expertise so that if one of us is looking to share a client he/she can contact those with skills that match the project.
    -------------------------------------------
    Edith Zang
    Independent Consultant
    NYCASA
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  • 5.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 07:28

    To some extent this does go on.  I worked for a statistical consulting firm for a short time because the company primarily a one man show had more work than it could handle.  on the other hand I think it would be naibe to think that many of us would be willing to share clients.  Remember for some this is a full time job and business fluctuates.  So there are times when consultants are in need for clients.  Sharing clinets runs the risk of losing clients unless you create some sort of legal cooperative agreement.  Although we all may have specific areas of expertise I think it is rare when a consultant would feel he can't handle a particular problem because it is not in his area of expertise.

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 6.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 11:57
    I agree with Michael that some statisticians might be reluctant to share clients for fear of losing them.  However, as someone who is just now planning to become a consultant, I would also appreciate getting jobs from consultants on a "subcontracting" basis, i.e., the client would not deal with me directly but with the statistician that he/she contacted - I would simply do all or part of the work and pass it along to the statistician.  I am a recently retired PhD statistician with 30 years' experience in all areas of biostatistics, both in pharma and non-profit research, and would be glad to help out another consultant on this or any other basis.
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    Edith Zang
    Independent Consultant
    NYCASA
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  • 7.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 12:33
    Although it may be semantics, I like to think of this as sharing work, as opposed to sharing clients. I have been on both sides. Sometimes I have done the strategic work such as design and protocol development but need a study statistician to be more hands-on or someone to review my work. I have also received work such as reviewing or consulting on statistical methodology. Some of us have 25-30 years experience, so we can provide insight that others won't have. One client required the SAP be reviewed by a PhD with strong technical skills and I served as an adviser on that project. We can often augment each other's skill set without taking the client. Right now my workload is light, and we know that may change tomorrow, but if someone needed an experienced outside reviewer or just another set of eyes, I would be available. This is not necessarily a request for some work but an example of how it could work.

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    David Bristol
    Statistical Consulting Services
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  • 8.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 12:41

    David, a point related to your comment.

    How have you and others made arrangements for additional expert statistical help, on short notice.  I've had a couple projects, where on very short notice, I got  an non-disclosure/CDA with another statistician so I could discuss some technical statistical issues. 
    However, it may be months or longer before I need to discuss a technical matter with another statistician, and by that time the statistician I originally contacted may not be available.



    -------------------------------------------
    Chris Barker, Ph.D.
    President - San Francisco Bay Area Chapter of the American Statistical Association
    www,barkerstats.com

    ..."In fifteen seconds the difference between composition and improvisation is that in composition you have all the time you want to decide what to say in fifteen seconds, while in improvisation you have fifteen seconds."...
     -Steve Lacy
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  • 9.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 14:31

    Occasionally I need some stat help but like others have mentioned, I go to my close statistical friends.  And even then I'm careful.  For instance I tend to use statisticians that are easy to work with and we have similar oppinions on how to approach a project.  I have never lost a client to another statistican that helped me but I have linked up a client with another statisticians that I felt had more experience than I did in a particular area.

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    Rocco Brunelle
    Senior Statistician
    Bowsher Brunelle Smith LLC
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  • 10.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 15:30
    This thread, motivated by "fight[ing] professional and/or personal isolation," has focused on sharing clients.  Many have pointed out the difficulties and limitations of this.  However, there is much that can be done short of that, including collaborative marketing efforts, providing mutual support, and passing along opportunities.

    "Collaborative marketing" can include low-key efforts such as joint research, teaching short courses together, and teaming on proposals, as well as more overt marketing such as meeting jointly with prospective clients.  The low-key stuff works well when you have common expertise whereas the more formal teaming is best when you have complementary expertise.  (I work extensively with consultants in other fields, especially engineering, telecommunications, and environmental consultants, where there tends to be little overlap of expertise, even when those consultants already employ statisticians.  The trick is to identify ways that you, as the statistician, can enhance the capabilities and credibility of your partners, and to exploit that to pursue consulting opportunities.)

    "Providing mutual support" can be as easy as calling someone up and talking.  Make it clear in advance whether the advice is billable or not and what the rates will be.  When it's billable, the advisor sends a simple invoice and the advisee pays it (and issues a 1099 at the end of the year).  It doesn't matter whether you're incorporated or not or how you're incorporated.  Some of us, myself included, will provide some telephone or email support to consultants (and potential clients) at no charge on the premise that it helps establish a working relationship and may eventually create opportunities to work together.  Support can also consist of reviewing reports, programs, analytical strategies, proposals, and occasionally more extensive hands-on work (more about those prospects later).

    "Passing along opportunities" is perhaps the easiest way to share work.  Colleagues, clients, and former clients frequently bring requests for proposals, grant opportunities, and other such material to my attention, but I can pursue only a fraction of these.  In some cases it's not a good fit.  On occasion, conflicts of interest arise: a lawyer is looking for an expert who has not worked for one of the parties in a case, for example.  It these situations it's good to know of others who might be more suited, because a good referral helps the client.

    I would like say a few more words about subcontracting.  Some projects may be large enough that specialized portions could usefully be separated and farmed out to another statistician.  In my experience (23 years, 18 as a small business or sole practitioner) this is rare.  A typical project requires a good understanding of the client's needs, knowledge of their business, a willingness to apply (and first learn, if necessary) whatever technique will address their problems, an ability to interpret and explain a statistical analysis,  and good writing skills.  Usually, only a small part of the work actually consists of statistical calculations: the bulk consists of identifying what the *real* problem is and then helping the client use your statistical insight to take some action or make a decision.  Basing a consulting business on the hope of getting subcontracts that require only statistical analysis, but none of this other stuff, may be unrealistic for most.

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    William Huber
    Quantitative Decisions
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  • 11.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 15:42
    I say amen especially to your last paragraph.  You make all the important points about the nature of statistical consulting.  Too many statisticians including some in this eGroup think that consulting involves using their statistical expertise to solve problems.  In fact that is just a small part of the job.  Good listening skill and the ability to unmask a statistical solution that applies to the real problem along with a strong ability to communicate the results is mainly what it is all about.  Most of us are not born with such skills but can lkearn it through experience.
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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 12.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 19:15
    I too think Bill Huber's last paragraph is a wonderful summary of the consulting process.  One good resource that I have not seen mentioned is websites.  Mine is www.ginevan.com.  I know that many other single person or small firm consulting firms have them and if you are new to the game they could give a multifaceted view of the varieties of consulting out there.  How about a directory of member websites for the consulting section?

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    Michael Ginevan
    M.E. Ginevan & Associates
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  • 13.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 20:00
    Yes, Michael, I think that is a good idea - let's assemble a list of consultants' websites for our own use, in case we need  a collaborator on one of our projects.
    -------------------------------------------
    Edith Zang
    Independent Consultant
    NYCASA
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  • 14.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 21:27

    Edith's reply made me think I missed the mark.  The point is that there are a wide variety of consulting paradigms.  For example, the FDA folk operate under very different circumstances than do those of us who do primarily health or environmental work.  In the FDA case data are from designed experiments and there are lots of rules and guidelines while in many health or environmental problems the data are observations that have been collected in a haphazard fashion because no sampling plan was ever defined and there are no useful guidelines at all.  Statisticians can be helpful in either case but the sorts of questions addressed differ markedly.  Most web sites try to provide a good look at what a person's practice scope is and can also give insight as to problem solving approaches.  Think of a web site directory as a catalog of potential consulting modes.

    I would second Bill Huber's thought that other statisticians are not a good group to market.  Actual data analysis is a very small piece of the puzzle.  The trick is to sell your skill sets to an audience who is, for the most part, statistically unsophisticated, find out what they need (lots of communication skills needed here), devise a solution (this is where the formal statistics comes in),  and then explain why your solution helps them (more communication). 

    I sometimes team with other senior statisticians with interlocking skill sets but would never hire a more junior person to simply do data analysis.  This is largely because the analysis is often pretty straightforward once the problem is defined, but also because one sometimes sees things in the course of analysis that suggest the analysis is flawed, provided you have a real in depth understanding of the problem.  If you hire a junior person to "turn the crank" you can miss these clues.  I note that the situation changes in a large firm.  Here there is an emphasis on training the next generation and also on spreading the senior expertise across a large number of projects.  In this sense large firms are a good apprenticeship program for aspiring consultants, but most of us little guys are not in the training business.

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    Michael Ginevan
    M.E. Ginevan & Associates
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  • 15.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 09:03


    -------------------------------------------
    Rocco Brunelle
    Senior Statistician
    Bowsher Brunelle Smith LLC
    -------------------------------------------
    Our website is www.b2s-stats.com

    I like the idea of a directory of our websites as well as a directory of our members that would accept some work and their areas of expertise.







  • 16.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 10:55
    To avoid cluttering this group, I'd be glad to collate a list privately. If you have a website that you use to promote your consulting practice, send it to my email account, mail@pmean.com. I'll collate them in a week and then reply back to this group.

    I have an ulterior motive. I'd like to link to the websites of some of my "competitors" on one of my webpages, if that's okay. I'd also like to produce a simple summary of the types of information that people list on their websites (e.g., what percentage of consultants list their hourly consulting rate on your website.) I know it's not a random sample, but I still think think the numbers would be interesting. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want this, but if you don't want me listing a link to your website on one of my pages at www.pmean.com or you don't want me including your website in the statistical summary, just let me know.

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    Stephen Simon
    Independent Statistical Consultant
    P. Mean Consulting
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  • 17.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 11:39

    This would also be a good addition to the web pages that the statistical consulting section maintains for clients looking for a statistician.

    Ray
    Stat Consult. Section Representative

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    Raymond Hoffmann
    Professor
    Medical College of Wisconsin
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  • 18.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 10:57


    -------------------------------------------
    Edith Zang
    Independent Consultant
    NYCASA
    -------------------------------------------
    Yes, I also like the idea of maintaining a list of consultants' e-mail address and/or website  - to include those who are willing to help out other consultants on their projects.   What is the procedure for creating such a list?  Does anyone know?

    Thanks, Edith







  • 19.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 11:42

    Sorry, but I don't see the need to create yet another list of consultants. ASA already maintains one. What's needed is better search capabilities in that list to allow to search by specialty, accepting referrals, willing to help out, etc. I'm sure ASA can help us with that. It will also make it a more useful tool for external clients looking for consultants.

    Regards,
    -------------------------------------------
    Carlos Alzola
    President
    Data Insights Inc.
    -------------------------------------------








  • 20.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 12:00

    How does one get on that list?  I have a feeling that I may not be there.  My primary function is as Director of Biostatistical Services at the Lankenau Institute for Medical Research.  But I also do private consulting on my own and through statistics.com.  I think I should be on a consulting list and i think there are probably other members of this Section that fall in the same boat.

    Also does the list include website addresses?  Although I don't have a website I am sure that those that do would like to advertise it.
    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
    -------------------------------------------








  • 21.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 12:17
    Our Current chair is
    (We actually discussed how to make the list more useful at JSM in Miami)

    Grady, James J.     Chair  2011-2011
    University of Connecticut Health Center
    263 Farmington Avenue, Inst of Clinical & Translational Science,
    Farmington, CT 06030-6233 , United States
    Phone: (409) 772-5276
    jgrady@uchc.edu

    and I would contact him.

    I will forward him this e-mail, in case he does not get these e-mail messages.

    Ray
    CS Section Rep

    -------------------------------------------
    Raymond Hoffmann
    Professor
    Medical College of Wisconsin
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  • 22.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 13:54


    -------------------------------------------
    Edith Zang
    Independent Consultant
    NYCASA
    -------------------------------------------
    I would like to forward my information to James Grady, or whoever is in charge of compiling it into a list.  Before I do that I think we should decide on some guidelines as to the amount and type of information that should be forwarded to him, such as
    - e-mail address,
    - web address,
    - LinkedIn address
    - phone number (?)
    - geographic location
    - percent of time spent on consulting activities (e.g., 100%, 50%, ...)
    - brief biographic profile 
    - area of special expertise and experience,
    - etc.?

    Or:  Those who are on LinkedIn may get away with just forwarding their LinkedIn address which contains all (or most) of the necessary information.

    Thanks!  Edith




  • 23.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-08-2011 14:16
    the consultant webdirectory is here:
    http://www.amstat.org/consultantdirectory/index.cfm
    you can add suggestions by clicking the button there.


    do not contact a CNSL officer to ask to be added.
    you can add yourself to the directory if you are a Section on Statistical Consulting member by logging into the Members Only section of www.amstat.org and configuring the profile.


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    Stuart Gansky
    University of California, San Francisco
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  • 24.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-09-2011 13:00
    The consulting section used to have a directory of statistical consultants that it maintained (I believe on the section website), but I don't know its current status.
    Cyndy

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    Cynthia Long
    Palmer Center for Chiropractic Research
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  • 25.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 12:39
    You could probably make such arrangements with some consulting groups.

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 26.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 12:17
    Re: sharing clients. I am not in favor of it for our practice. Years ago i got some vacation coverage and lost one or two clients to the covering statistician.

    If we need some expertise that we don't have, we hire a statistician who has it to work with us. This happens may 2-3 times per year. Usually, the contact of that statistician is with us (to advise us on what to do) and not with the client. These statisticians are usually friends, or nice acquaintances, so there are not issues about losing clients to them. We also have a non-competiton agreement that I have asked employees or subcontractors to sign, but since the people we hire are almost always buddies who don't do much consulting on the side of their regular jobs, I have been lax about requiring the agreement. The agreement stipulates that the statistician can't fish among our clients for two years after their work with us ends. 

    Best wishes,

    Nayak



    -------------------------------------------
    Nayak Polissar
    Consultant
    The Mountain Whisper Light
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  • 27.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 12:37
    Yes.  I think that what you say is quite common.  When I worked for Data Vision I signed a non-compete agreement. But they did allow me to work directly with the clients.  I think the group needs to understand that consulting is not a side hobby but rather a serious business for many of us and so there is not going to be a free exchange of clients.

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    Michael Chernick
    Director of Biostatistical Services
    Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
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  • 28.  RE:Tapping into our collective wisdom: Fighting Isolation

    Posted 09-07-2011 05:48
    I think this needs separate answers for social things and professional things; here are some ideas for professional activities

    1) Subscribe to mailing lists, blogs and other social media about consulting, both generally and in your field and with the software you use, and interact with others on those resources, don't just lurk!

    2) Go to conferences

    3) Write to authors of papers you like.


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    Peter Flom
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