Discussion: View Thread

Hi everyone,

I wanted to put one other idea out there, not to do with JSM 2012.   We all have a varied range of skills, expertise, experiences and values.  However, our common denominator is that we all practice statistical consulting.  I think it would be valuable for many of us to participate in ongoing discussions regarding statistical consulting - by tapping into our collective wisdom, we could open our minds to new ideas, approaches, points of view, resources, etc.  The outcome of these discussions could be summarized and posted somewhere for all current and future consultants to access.  

The discussions could have pre-selected themes or spontaneous themes and would initially cover the "soft" side of consulting, rather than the "technical" side.  For the pre-selected themes, we can just elicit feedback from the Statistical Consulting Section and then define the scope and duration of the discussion pertaining to a given theme.  For the spontaneous themes, we need to promote an environment conducive to such discussion, where everyone would feel comfortable to participate and no one would be chastized for sending one too many e-mails. 

If this sounds intriguing to you, please jump into the conversation. 

Kind regards,

Isabella

-------------------------------------------
Isabella Ghement
Ghement Statistical Consulting Co.
-------------------------------------------

To me, this is an excellent idea, although not so different from what I have been reading here for a few months.  For 25 years, I have been a self-employed biostatistical consultant.  Frankly, I know no one else who has pursued a career and supported a family in this manner, although evidently there are others as revealed by these conversations.  This way of working has been intellectually and professionally rewarding, but emotionally and personally quite isolated.  Example of an issue: elegant, new biostatistical methods appear frequently in the journals, but clients usually know nothing of this progress.  Is this a problem or an opportunity?
-------------------------------------------
Larry Muenz
Larry R. Muenz & Associates
-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
Peter Flom
-------------------------------------------

I've been doing nothing but consulting for about 2 years now; I did some part time for a long while before that.

I consult with PhD students and researchers, mostly in the social sciences, psychology and education

Peter





Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:13
From: Larry Muenz
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


To me, this is an excellent idea, although not so different from what I have been reading here for a few months.  For 25 years, I have been a self-employed biostatistical consultant.  Frankly, I know no one else who has pursued a career and supported a family in this manner, although evidently there are others as revealed by these conversations.  This way of working has been intellectually and professionally rewarding, but emotionally and personally quite isolated.  Example of an issue: elegant, new biostatistical methods appear frequently in the journals, but clients usually know nothing of this progress.  Is this a problem or an opportunity?
-------------------------------------------
Larry Muenz
Larry R. Muenz & Associates
-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?





Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:23
From: Peter Flom
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Peter Flom
-------------------------------------------

I've been doing nothing but consulting for about 2 years now; I did some part time for a long while before that.

I consult with PhD students and researchers, mostly in the social sciences, psychology and education

Peter

Edith

Speaking only for myself:
1) I have a web page
2) Mostly short term work with a couple (right now two, could go to three soon) long term contracts
3) For short term work, hourly rate.  For long term work either hourly or weekly.  Almost never per project, it causes too many problems

-------------------------------------------
Peter Flom
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:50
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?

-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------


Hi Peter,  Thank you for the information!  Edith




Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:56
From: Peter Flom
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

Edith

Speaking only for myself:
1) I have a web page
2) Mostly short term work with a couple (right now two, could go to three soon) long term contracts
3) For short term work, hourly rate.  For long term work either hourly or weekly.  Almost never per project, it causes too many problems

-------------------------------------------
Peter Flom
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:50
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?

It's a bit dated, but there is a salary survey at
--> http://www.amstat.org/sections/cnsl/newsletter/pdf_archive/vol23no1.pdf

-------------------------------------------
Stephen Simon
Independent Statistical Consultant
P. Mean Consulting
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:50
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?

This is a great conversation, just what I had in mind.  I too think about retiring, but I'm having too much fun and also still making a living.  Engineers may have a tough time getting work (today's NY Times) but I don't think that biostatisticians do.  After so many years of doing this, the projects come to me and I no longer have to solicit them.  There are fallow periods, and a year or so ago was not so great, but business has picked up and there are lots of short-to-medium term projects, although real continuity is quite rare.  Billing is always by the hour, never by the project.  Quintiles may be able to lose $50K on a project and make it up on the next one, but I couldn't do that.

-------------------------------------------
Larry Muenz
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 16:09
From: Stephen Simon
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

It's a bit dated, but there is a salary survey at
--> http://www.amstat.org/sections/cnsl/newsletter/pdf_archive/vol23no1.pdf

-------------------------------------------
Stephen Simon
Independent Statistical Consultant
P. Mean Consulting
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:50
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?

-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------



Thank you, Larry, this is interesting information!  I suppose independent consultants need to be incorporated and have their own website.  It would be great if I could look at some of these websites to get an idea as to how I should design mine? 



Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 16:14
From: Larry Muenz
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

This is a great conversation, just what I had in mind.  I too think about retiring, but I'm having too much fun and also still making a living.  Engineers may have a tough time getting work (today's NY Times) but I don't think that biostatisticians do.  After so many years of doing this, the projects come to me and I no longer have to solicit them.  There are fallow periods, and a year or so ago was not so great, but business has picked up and there are lots of short-to-medium term projects, although real continuity is quite rare.  Billing is always by the hour, never by the project.  Quintiles may be able to lose $50K on a project and make it up on the next one, but I couldn't do that.

-------------------------------------------
Larry Muenz
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 16:09
From: Stephen Simon
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

It's a bit dated, but there is a salary survey at
--> http://www.amstat.org/sections/cnsl/newsletter/pdf_archive/vol23no1.pdf

-------------------------------------------
Stephen Simon
Independent Statistical Consultant
P. Mean Consulting
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:50
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?

Thanks Stephen, I must have missed this article. 

-------------------------------------------
Rocco Brunelle
Senior Statistician
Bowsher Brunelle Smith LLC
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 16:09
From: Stephen Simon
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

It's a bit dated, but there is a salary survey at
--> http://www.amstat.org/sections/cnsl/newsletter/pdf_archive/vol23no1.pdf

-------------------------------------------
Stephen Simon
Independent Statistical Consultant
P. Mean Consulting
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:50
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?

Hi Edith,

All of my clients have been word of mouth.  I started with clients from people that I had worked with in the past and then they have passed my name to other people.  I have not had to go and "sale" myself.   I also take the personal opinion that job that I do reflects on my personal reputation no matter what company I am working for/with.  I try to go above and beyond and make sure everything is correct (even if I don't get paid for all the hours I spend) because that is what brings back repeat business and helps individual pass your name around.   I would start with people you know and have worked for in the past.  Also, it is probably easier to start consulting in the industry in which you are familiar.  Billing rates vary significantly and I have found that many consultants price themselves out of the market.  They might get a little work, but there is a balance between a high price for a little work and a moderate price for a lot of work.

-------------------------------------------
Rebecca Hoagland
Consulting Statistician
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:50
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

I just retired from a full time job and an getting into consulting.  I would very much appreciate getting information from experienced consultants as to how they find their clients; is most of their consulting work based on long term contracts with a set amount of hours weekly/monthly, or is most of it short term projects?  Also, where can I get information about what are reasonable hourly charges at different skill levels?  Finally, if payment is received per project, how is the total fee calculated?





Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:23
From: Peter Flom
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Peter Flom
-------------------------------------------

I've been doing nothing but consulting for about 2 years now; I did some part time for a long while before that.

I consult with PhD students and researchers, mostly in the social sciences, psychology and education

Peter

Hi Larry...I think there are a lot of us lone consultants out there.  I have been consulting on my own for 15+ years and love it.  My biggest issue is trying to control the ebb and flow of work without having to hire someone full-time.  I tend to use other single consultants out there to help me out when I get more work than I can handle by myself.  There are many individuals who approach me about going out on their own, but they also want to have the cushion of a 40 hour work week and don't realize that there are times you must put in 80 hours/week to meet timelines and then times when you might not have work for 3-6 months.  You have to learn to budget and work when there is work and take the downtime when it comes.  It is a lot different life than a regular 8-5 job with a company. 
-------------------------------------------
Rebecca Hoagland
Consulting Statistician
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:13
From: Larry Muenz
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


To me, this is an excellent idea, although not so different from what I have been reading here for a few months.  For 25 years, I have been a self-employed biostatistical consultant.  Frankly, I know no one else who has pursued a career and supported a family in this manner, although evidently there are others as revealed by these conversations.  This way of working has been intellectually and professionally rewarding, but emotionally and personally quite isolated.  Example of an issue: elegant, new biostatistical methods appear frequently in the journals, but clients usually know nothing of this progress.  Is this a problem or an opportunity?
-------------------------------------------
Larry Muenz
Larry R. Muenz & Associates
-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

Hi Rebecca, considering the "ebb and flow" in the work of consultants, do you still feel that this is preferable to working in a full time job?  Also, do you find that as a consultant your average income is higher or lower compared to someone with your skill set and experience who is working in a full time job?





Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:48
From: Rebecca Hoagland
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


Hi Larry...I think there are a lot of us lone consultants out there.  I have been consulting on my own for 15+ years and love it.  My biggest issue is trying to control the ebb and flow of work without having to hire someone full-time.  I tend to use other single consultants out there to help me out when I get more work than I can handle by myself.  There are many individuals who approach me about going out on their own, but they also want to have the cushion of a 40 hour work week and don't realize that there are times you must put in 80 hours/week to meet timelines and then times when you might not have work for 3-6 months.  You have to learn to budget and work when there is work and take the downtime when it comes.  It is a lot different life than a regular 8-5 job with a company. 
-------------------------------------------
Rebecca Hoagland
Consulting Statistician
-------------------------------------------

Hi Edith,

I would not take a full-time job again unless I was desperate.  I have been offered many jobs by the clients I consult with and have always turned them down.  The advantages that I see:

1.) My time is my own.  Being a mother with 4 children, I can take off and go to their activities and be involved in their lives without getting permission from a boss.  This might mean working late at night or early morning to get some work out, but I do not have to be in an office from 8-5 and can flex my time around my children.
2.) I make more than I would at a full-time job and have to work less hours to accomplish that (unless I have a really slow year which hasn't happened for 8 years).  This is factoring in the overhead costs of SAS, computers, office equipment, phones, etc..
3.) I usually charge by the hour, so I get paid for every hour that I work.  My past jobs have required me to put in ~60 hours a week and I never was able to stay on top of the projects.  This way, if I work 60 hours a week, I get paid for 60 hours a week - not a set salary.

Disadvantages:
1.) You have to budget (save money during the good times to ebb you over during the bad) and are in charge of all of the book work, taxes, contracts, invoicing, etc. which is above and beyond the hours you work.
2.) Your work load might not be consistent and very few projects are long-term contracts, so it is hard to predict when you will be busy or slow.
3.) You have to keep up with the computers and software and become your own IT consultant.
4.) Sometimes do not have other individuals to ask for help, although this group is good about bouncing ideas off of.

-------------------------------------------
Rebecca Hoagland
Consulting Statistician
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:57
From: Edith Zang
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



-------------------------------------------
Edith Zang
Independent Consultant
NYCASA
-------------------------------------------

Hi Rebecca, considering the "ebb and flow" in the work of consultants, do you still feel that this is preferable to working in a full time job?  Also, do you find that as a consultant your average income is higher or lower compared to someone with your skill set and experience who is working in a full time job?





Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:48
From: Rebecca Hoagland
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


Hi Larry...I think there are a lot of us lone consultants out there.  I have been consulting on my own for 15+ years and love it.  My biggest issue is trying to control the ebb and flow of work without having to hire someone full-time.  I tend to use other single consultants out there to help me out when I get more work than I can handle by myself.  There are many individuals who approach me about going out on their own, but they also want to have the cushion of a 40 hour work week and don't realize that there are times you must put in 80 hours/week to meet timelines and then times when you might not have work for 3-6 months.  You have to learn to budget and work when there is work and take the downtime when it comes.  It is a lot different life than a regular 8-5 job with a company. 
-------------------------------------------
Rebecca Hoagland
Consulting Statistician
-------------------------------------------

I am quite in favor of Isabella's two suggestions. I am rapidly approaching retirement and would like to leave behind some nuggets of wisdom, apart from technical matters.  In addition, most of my professional life as a statistician has been as the lone practitioner wherever I have been.  Lacking colleagues to bounce notions or ideas off of has been one of the few negatives of that circumstance. Few, if any, of these issues rise to the level of an article in a journal, but it would be very helpful to have a venue for open discussion, such as I have seen lately in this Consulting Section eGroup. Perhaps a subsection on notions, thoughts, puzzlements, and such could have an eGroup, so that the more technically oriented could be spared those emails.


-------------------------------------------
Richard Browne
Texas Scottish Rite Hospital for Children
-------------------------------------------

I suspect that we as statisticians tend to chime in on technical questions because it's easy to do so, or that we feel compelled to do so.  This presents a "response bias" which we should not interpret as lack of interest in non-technical questions.

I myself am not an independent consultant, so I won't start the ball rolling.  But I do second Isabella's suggestion, and would like to add my voice to the chorus saying that this is the right place to discuss non-technical issues.

-Jim


-------------------------------------------
James Garrett
Manager, R&D Statistics
Becton Dickinson
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 15:20
From: Richard Browne
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


I am quite in favor of Isabella's two suggestions. I am rapidly approaching retirement and would like to leave behind some nuggets of wisdom, apart from technical matters.  In addition, most of my professional life as a statistician has been as the lone practitioner wherever I have been.  Lacking colleagues to bounce notions or ideas off of has been one of the few negatives of that circumstance. Few, if any, of these issues rise to the level of an article in a journal, but it would be very helpful to have a venue for open discussion, such as I have seen lately in this Consulting Section eGroup. Perhaps a subsection on notions, thoughts, puzzlements, and such could have an eGroup, so that the more technically oriented could be spared those emails.


-------------------------------------------
Richard Browne
Texas Scottish Rite Hospital for Children
-------------------------------------------

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for your valuable responses so far.  Many of you have indicated isolation to be an issue - whether it is professional isolation or emotional isolation.   

Perhaps we can devote our first discussion theme to isolation - a catchy title would be "3 Things Solo Consultants Can Do to Fight Isolation".   If the others agree, we can spend next week (September 5 - September 11, 2011) contributing our thoughts and insights on this theme.  Each of you may have a different idea on what can be done to fight isolation, so all you have to do is to contribute your top 3 ideas throughout the course of next week by e-mailing me at isabella@ghement.ca.  I will then be happy to compile your answers and send them to the entire consulting section.  (I am proposing to do this so that we don't flood the list with our e-mails. If you think everyone will benefit by seeing your insights in real time, I will leave it to you to decide whether you want to post your entry for the entire section to see.)     

Another emerging theme seems to be that of finding new clients.  Again, if the others agree, let's devote the week of September 12 - September 18, 2011 to this theme.  On that week, please e-mail me or the list (whichever makes you comfortable) with answers to the discussion theme: "One Thing You Could Do to Find New Clients".  We all have different ways of finding clients, so please contribute the approach that you found to be most successful in your own business.    

The third theme that emerged was that of not only staying abreast of new statistical methodology, but being able to convince our clients that this methodology is valuable to them.  We could spend the week of September 19-September 25, 2011 addressing the theme:  "Marketing Novel Statistical Methodology to Clients:  Challenge or Opportunity"? 

This is only the beginning, but I am hoping we can create an ongoing discussion which would make all of us feel more engaged with our peers and able to reach out when the isolation bites.  You now get an idea of how this is supposed to work, so feel free to extract new themes of discussion for the subsequent weeks.  For the first three weeks mentioned above, I will send a reminder to all of you as to what that week's theme is and invite you to submit your contributions. 

I am really excited that we are all uniting our forces to make this happen!

Wishing you all a great weekend!

Kind regards,

Isabella

-------------------------------------------
Isabella Ghement
Ghement Statistical Consulting Co.
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 16:00
From: James Garrett
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

I suspect that we as statisticians tend to chime in on technical questions because it's easy to do so, or that we feel compelled to do so.  This presents a "response bias" which we should not interpret as lack of interest in non-technical questions.

I myself am not an independent consultant, so I won't start the ball rolling.  But I do second Isabella's suggestion, and would like to add my voice to the chorus saying that this is the right place to discuss non-technical issues.

-Jim


-------------------------------------------
James Garrett
Manager, R&D Statistics
Becton Dickinson
-------------------------------------------

Although I do most of my consulting as a solo statistician I do nto feel any isolation issue.  Perhaps it is because I am very involved in ASA chapters and sections and also have a full time job.  So if you want me on a panel I don't think i could be on the one about isolation.

-------------------------------------------
Michael Chernick
Director of Biostatistical Services
Lankenau Institute for Medical Research
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 16:23
From: Isabella Ghement
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for your valuable responses so far.  Many of you have indicated isolation to be an issue - whether it is professional isolation or emotional isolation.   

Perhaps we can devote our first discussion theme to isolation - a catchy title would be "3 Things Solo Consultants Can Do to Fight Isolation".   If the others agree, we can spend next week (September 5 - September 11, 2011) contributing our thoughts and insights on this theme.  Each of you may have a different idea on what can be done to fight isolation, so all you have to do is to contribute your top 3 ideas throughout the course of next week by e-mailing me at isabella@ghement.ca.  I will then be happy to compile your answers and send them to the entire consulting section.  (I am proposing to do this so that we don't flood the list with our e-mails. If you think everyone will benefit by seeing your insights in real time, I will leave it to you to decide whether you want to post your entry for the entire section to see.)     

Another emerging theme seems to be that of finding new clients.  Again, if the others agree, let's devote the week of September 12 - September 18, 2011 to this theme.  On that week, please e-mail me or the list (whichever makes you comfortable) with answers to the discussion theme: "One Thing You Could Do to Find New Clients".  We all have different ways of finding clients, so please contribute the approach that you found to be most successful in your own business.    

The third theme that emerged was that of not only staying abreast of new statistical methodology, but being able to convince our clients that this methodology is valuable to them.  We could spend the week of September 19-September 25, 2011 addressing the theme:  "Marketing Novel Statistical Methodology to Clients:  Challenge or Opportunity"? 

This is only the beginning, but I am hoping we can create an ongoing discussion which would make all of us feel more engaged with our peers and able to reach out when the isolation bites.  You now get an idea of how this is supposed to work, so feel free to extract new themes of discussion for the subsequent weeks.  For the first three weeks mentioned above, I will send a reminder to all of you as to what that week's theme is and invite you to submit your contributions. 

I am really excited that we are all uniting our forces to make this happen!

Wishing you all a great weekend!

Kind regards,

Isabella

-------------------------------------------
Isabella Ghement
Ghement Statistical Consulting Co.
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 16:00
From: James Garrett
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

I suspect that we as statisticians tend to chime in on technical questions because it's easy to do so, or that we feel compelled to do so.  This presents a "response bias" which we should not interpret as lack of interest in non-technical questions.

I myself am not an independent consultant, so I won't start the ball rolling.  But I do second Isabella's suggestion, and would like to add my voice to the chorus saying that this is the right place to discuss non-technical issues.

-Jim


-------------------------------------------
James Garrett
Manager, R&D Statistics
Becton Dickinson
-------------------------------------------

This is a wonderful thread.  I have moved from part-time to full-time consulting and I love it.  One issue that comes up from a few clients concerns incorporation.  I have never seen the need for it, as I have always worked on a 1099 basis, but now and then some potential clients will only consider a business-to-business contract.  Any thoughts on the pros and cons of incorporation (my apologies if I have missed a thread on this topic.

Best Regards,

Stephen Brand

www.StatisticsDoc.com

According to my accountant, the current US tax structure favors the S-corp, as opposed to the individual rate.


-------------------------------------------
David Bristol
Statistical Consulting Services, Inc.
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 17:20
From: Stephen Brand
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


This is a wonderful thread.  I have moved from part-time to full-time consulting and I love it.  One issue that comes up from a few clients concerns incorporation.  I have never seen the need for it, as I have always worked on a 1099 basis, but now and then some potential clients will only consider a business-to-business contract.  Any thoughts on the pros and cons of incorporation (my apologies if I have missed a thread on this topic.

Best Regards,

Stephen Brand

www.StatisticsDoc.com

-------------------------------------------
Rebecca Hoagland
Consulting Statistician
-------------------------------------------
I incorporated (C corp) because it gives you a broader range of companies for which to consult and limits your liability.  I have found that companies will do a business to business contract before an individual contract.  The issue comes in defining "Independent Contractor" and "Temporary Contractor".  One the company has to withhold taxes and the other they don't.  When contracting with an individual, if the individual works more than 1000 hours for the company, then it is difficult for the company to prove that they are independent and the IRS will want them to withhold taxes.  Withholding taxes then increases the rate that the company has to pay for the consultant.  Also, depending upon how "benefits" are written in the company guidelines, the individual could sue them for benefits.  With a business to business contract, they do not have to worry about the employee/non-employee issues.





Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 17:26
From: David Bristol
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

According to my accountant, the current US tax structure favors the S-corp, as opposed to the individual rate.


-------------------------------------------
David Bristol
Statistical Consulting Services, Inc.
-------------------------------------------

When I started my business in 2007 I set it up as an LLC because it limited my personal liability and the paperwork was fairly easy.  A corporation also limits your liability but there are some tax differences.  I have heard from several sources that the tax code currently favors the S corp, as someone mentioned here, but I suggest that you talk to a tax attorney to sort out which type (LLC, C corp, S corp) would be best for you.

-------------------------------------------
Linda Pickle
StatNet Consulting, LLC
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 17:20
From: Stephen Brand
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


This is a wonderful thread.  I have moved from part-time to full-time consulting and I love it.  One issue that comes up from a few clients concerns incorporation.  I have never seen the need for it, as I have always worked on a 1099 basis, but now and then some potential clients will only consider a business-to-business contract.  Any thoughts on the pros and cons of incorporation (my apologies if I have missed a thread on this topic.

Best Regards,

Stephen Brand

www.StatisticsDoc.com

I set up my company as an S corp. All good advice in the posts.

When you set up your own corp, I have all of - an attorney (who reads my contracts before I sign, from time to time I have him read my "non disclosure" agreements), a CPA, and a bookkeeper.
You can skip the bookkeeper if you learn "quickbooks" on your own. 

In my experience with contracts, I have found that about 9 times out of 10, my attorney has to add a statement in the contract like " Statistician will work, and will send invoices monthly and client will pay within 30 days". I've been amused to find so many contracts seem to be missing a "statistician gets paid" clause.



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Chris Barker, Ph.D.
President - San Francisco Bay Area Chapter of the American Statistical Association
www,barkerstats.com
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 18:21
From: Linda Pickle
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



When I started my business in 2007 I set it up as an LLC because it limited my personal liability and the paperwork was fairly easy.  A corporation also limits your liability but there are some tax differences.  I have heard from several sources that the tax code currently favors the S corp, as someone mentioned here, but I suggest that you talk to a tax attorney to sort out which type (LLC, C corp, S corp) would be best for you.

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Linda Pickle
StatNet Consulting, LLC
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I started consulting without LLC or INC. Then converted to LLC for legal protection and to issue 1099s to subcontractors. However, according to my accountant, LLC with only person is the same as an individual for tax purposes, so there is no tax advantage. I didn't think it was worth the hassle to convert to INC until he showed me that my taxes were  >$5000 higher as one-person LLC than INC. That was convincing. I think that an LLC with >1 person is more like INC for taxes.
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David Bristol
Statistical Consulting Services
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 18:21
From: Linda Pickle
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



When I started my business in 2007 I set it up as an LLC because it limited my personal liability and the paperwork was fairly easy.  A corporation also limits your liability but there are some tax differences.  I have heard from several sources that the tax code currently favors the S corp, as someone mentioned here, but I suggest that you talk to a tax attorney to sort out which type (LLC, C corp, S corp) would be best for you.

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Linda Pickle
StatNet Consulting, LLC
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You don't need to be incorporated to issue 1099's.  I've done it and I'm not incorporated.

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James Loughlin
J2Logic/Loughlin Consulting
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2011 00:03
From: David Bristol
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


I started consulting without LLC or INC. Then converted to LLC for legal protection and to issue 1099s to subcontractors. However, according to my accountant, LLC with only person is the same as an individual for tax purposes, so there is no tax advantage. I didn't think it was worth the hassle to convert to INC until he showed me that my taxes were  >$5000 higher as one-person LLC than INC. That was convincing. I think that an LLC with >1 person is more like INC for taxes.
-------------------------------------------
David Bristol
Statistical Consulting Services
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 18:21
From: Linda Pickle
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom



When I started my business in 2007 I set it up as an LLC because it limited my personal liability and the paperwork was fairly easy.  A corporation also limits your liability but there are some tax differences.  I have heard from several sources that the tax code currently favors the S corp, as someone mentioned here, but I suggest that you talk to a tax attorney to sort out which type (LLC, C corp, S corp) would be best for you.

-------------------------------------------
Linda Pickle
StatNet Consulting, LLC
-------------------------------------------

Hi Everyone.  I am responding to Isabella's initial post about tapping into our collective wisdom.  I really like this idea.  I think there is a tremendous amount of both "hard" and "soft" knowledge amongst the members in our group and I would like to see a place for dialogues that get recorded in useful and easy to read ways.

I know there have been a few discussion on whether or not an email thread or e-group thread is the best format.  One suggestion I have is that we could use an online collaboration tool called BaseCamp.  I have a corporate subscription to Basecamp, since I use this tool for all of my clients as an added-value to my services. And I could use my account to set up an "ASA Statistical Consulting Group" project at no additional cost.  Within that space, all the members would have access to a blog on which we could post and have discussions on both pre-determined and spontaneous topics.  The space would also include a filing cabinet where members could upload files, etc that could, over time, form a statistical consulting library of sorts. 

If you would like to explore the Basecamp idea, send me an email and I can send you a username and password for the project.

If the Basecamp idea is unappealing, we could also start a wiki page for very little money.

Thanks Isabella for such an interesting suggestion.

All the best,
Heather
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Heather Krause
Statistical Consultant specializing in NGO & Non-profit analyses
Datassist.ca
heather@datassist.ca
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2011 00:07
From: James Loughlin
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

You don't need to be incorporated to issue 1099's.  I've done it and I'm not incorporated.

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James Loughlin
J2Logic/Loughlin Consulting
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This list's software has the capability of having things uploaded.  The screen I am viewing this message on has an "attach" button that brings up

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Arthur Kendall
Social Research Consultants
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2011 16:55
From: Heather Krause
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


Hi Everyone.  I am responding to Isabella's initial post about tapping into our collective wisdom.  I really like this idea.  I think there is a tremendous amount of both "hard" and "soft" knowledge amongst the members in our group and I would like to see a place for dialogues that get recorded in useful and easy to read ways.

I know there have been a few discussion on whether or not an email thread or e-group thread is the best format.  One suggestion I have is that we could use an online collaboration tool called BaseCamp.  I have a corporate subscription to Basecamp, since I use this tool for all of my clients as an added-value to my services. And I could use my account to set up an "ASA Statistical Consulting Group" project at no additional cost.  Within that space, all the members would have access to a blog on which we could post and have discussions on both pre-determined and spontaneous topics.  The space would also include a filing cabinet where members could upload files, etc that could, over time, form a statistical consulting library of sorts. 

If you would like to explore the Basecamp idea, send me an email and I can send you a username and password for the project.

If the Basecamp idea is unappealing, we could also start a wiki page for very little money.

Thanks Isabella for such an interesting suggestion.

All the best,
Heather
-------------------------------------------
Heather Krause
Statistical Consultant specializing in NGO & Non-profit analyses
Datassist.ca
heather@datassist.ca
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2011 00:07
From: James Loughlin
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom

You don't need to be incorporated to issue 1099's.  I've done it and I'm not incorporated.

-------------------------------------------
James Loughlin
J2Logic/Loughlin Consulting
-------------------------------------------

I've consulting for 13 years and also work on a 1099 basis.  Most clients have no problem with 1099.  For the few who did, I ended up subcontracting under someone else who was incorporated.  So far, there haven't been enough clients insisting on business-to-business contracts to make it worth my while to incorporate. 


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James Loughlin
J2Logic/Loughlin Consulting
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 17:20
From: Stephen Brand
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


This is a wonderful thread.  I have moved from part-time to full-time consulting and I love it.  One issue that comes up from a few clients concerns incorporation.  I have never seen the need for it, as I have always worked on a 1099 basis, but now and then some potential clients will only consider a business-to-business contract.  Any thoughts on the pros and cons of incorporation (my apologies if I have missed a thread on this topic.

Best Regards,

Stephen Brand

www.StatisticsDoc.com

I'm a newish faculty member, and while right now my priority is to push my research line, I am very much interested in becoming involved in consulting in the near future. I just want to say that this kind of discussion is invaluable as these are precisely the kinds of issues I'm trying to sort out at this stage. I really hope this group persists and that I will indeed be able to tap into your collective wisdom when I do try to enter the arena. Thanks everyone.

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Robert Pearson
Assistant Professor
University of Northern Colorado
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2011 20:03
From: James Loughlin
Subject: Tapping into our collective wisdom


I've consulting for 13 years and also work on a 1099 basis.  Most clients have no problem with 1099.  For the few who did, I ended up subcontracting under someone else who was incorporated.  So far, there haven't been enough clients insisting on business-to-business contracts to make it worth my while to incorporate. 


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James Loughlin
J2Logic/Loughlin Consulting
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