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CNSL members,

In discussion with colleagues and with the students in my course on statistical collaboration, the topic of introversion has recently arisen several times. Statistical consultants and practitioners who are introverted may have a separate set of difficulties working with non-statisticians (and other statisticians as well) from those who are extroverted.

This brings up the following questions to me and I would love to hear from someone who has looked at this or who considers him/herself an introvert:

1) Some time ago, I may have simply said that statistical consulting is a job for those who are somewhat extroverted. I no longer believe this is the case, as I've learned more about what it really means to be introverted; for example, many introverts are quite good at social interaction, but simply prefer not to interact or feel "drained" in these situations. So, what specifically is appealing about statistical consulting to someone who is introverted? Is it, or can it be, enjoyable to work with clients on a regular basis?

2) What do introverts struggle with the most when working with clients? I've invested strongly in Doug Zahn's POWER process  for running meetings (How to Become a More Effective Collaborator ? for some brief explanation), but I'm not sure if a process like this would work equally well for an introvert (who by definition finds social contact draining) as for an extrovert. Maybe it does, or maybe it doesn't.

I'd be interested at the moment because it may help me with some of my more introverted students, but in the long run I think it may be of interest to the statistical community at large.

Thanks!

Kim

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Kim Love-Myers
Associate Director, UGA Statistical Consulting Center
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Kim:

By any definition,  I am a classic introvert in that I need time alone to recharge my batteries and I find social interactions like receptions, parties, etc. draining.  I have been a statistical consultant however for nearly 32 years and have enjoyed it very much.  I never felt that my introverted nature hindered my consulting but it may have have limited the volume of consulting I did.  

In regards to your 2 questions,  the thing I enjoy most about statistical consulting is working with a small group of individuals to solve problems.  Interacting 1:1,  observing other people's strengths and learning things give me great satisfaction.  Perhaps the hardest thing I struggled with when I consulted within pharma was the need to communicate with several layers of management.  It was extremely frustrating for me to come to reasonable solution with a client only to then have to revise that because their director or their director's VP  wanted something else.   Playing the politics game was very annoying and maybe that was partially due to my introverted nature.   

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Roy Tamura
Associate Professor
University of South Florida
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Hi Kim, interesting question.

I've wondered if having an introverted personality is a problem for statistical collaborators.  I'm no expert, but I see many people are introverted in some environments and not others.  Some people can dance on a table a club, but they are uncomfortable about responding to a public blog, for example.

Maybe we should focus those aspects of an introverted personality that can degrade the effectiveness of a statistical collaborator.  The three that stand out in my mind are the ability to:

1. be an active listener - ask and process questions.
2. discuss statistical results, and
3. present recommendations.

These seem to deal with communications, and I would think courses in statistical consulting would include these among their educational objectives.

Do these three areas of communication capture your concerns about introverted personalities?

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Edward Jones
Executive Professor
Texas A&M Statistical Services
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I'm also an introvert. Like Roy, I find the 1-on-1 or small-group interaction to solve a problem to be very different than making conversation with a group a strangers at a party or conference. Introverts are often very good listeners (cf the book "Quiet" by Susan Cain), which is obviously great for consulting. I think the key is that the topic is already determined, and of presumably high interest to all involved, as opposed to social chitchat. (In a related note, I personally find it much easier to strike up a conversation with strangers at a conference when we're all coming from or waiting for a particular panel or presentation, as we all have a common topic to talk about.)

For the initial discussions, the more I can find out in advance about the problem (without running afoul of any NDA or other proprietary issues) the better--again, because I'll have something reasonably concrete already in mind to talk about. And presenting the results shouldn't really be an issue of shyness but in knowing how to communicate with people at various levels of statistical/technical sophistication with different needs and concerns, which I don't see as an introvert/extrovert problem. If the issue is presenting to a large crowd (e.g., in an auditorium), there's an old tried-and-true method: Pick a sympathetic and/or attentive face or two in the audience (even better if it's someone you know), and deliver the talk to that person or persons. (If you're up on a platform or down in a well, the audience really won't be able to tell you're doing this, particularly if you're sharing your attention across more than one individual.)

The tough thing for introverts is doing the networking and self-promotion that are required for any self-employment situation. So it's not so much the working with clients as the finding and getting of them in the first place.

>>Kathy

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Katherine Godfrey
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Re: (2), technical interaction is a teachable skill (as Doug Zahn's and Co. short courses clearly demonstrate). Arguably, extroverts may arrive at something like his POWER process just by their intuition, while introverts would benefit the most from learning "soft" skills in a protected, low impact environment (as opposed to losing dissatisfied clients in the real world). A professional approach to one's consulting practice puts the burden on the consultant to recognize their strengths and weaknesses, to act upon these reflections, and to learn how to compensate for the weaknesses (for one, I am a non-native speaker, and I always ask my colleagues to fix up my weird grammar in the final client-facing products). Just as you may want to take a short course in the newest R package for [multiple imputation | cross-over designs | Bayesian MCMC | robust GLM | mediation & moderation | you name a statistical method], one likewise needs to boost their skills in handing the workflows and talking to clients. These are as much a part of your consulting practice and of your toolkit as the pure methods are.

In light of the above, I honestly think a couple hundred people just missed their opportunity this year at the JSM with Vance+Smith+Zahn short course on effective collaborations (http://www.amstat.org/meetings/jsm/2015/onlineprogram/ActivityDetails.cfm?SessionID=211911). When people ask me about the highlights of my JSM 2015 experience, I put that course forth of any technical session that I attended.

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Stanislav Kolenikov
Principal Survey Scientist
Abt SRBI
Education Officer, Survey Research Methods Section
------------------------------

As I told a new supervisor, I get to control the interaction.  "They come to me and we talk about their problem and decide how to approach it and then they go away.  I work on the problem, call them back, we discuss the solution and it's implications and then they go away."

I enjoy "playing in other people's back yard" and i like helping people succeed.  It gets ugly when they try to drag you into their fight.  I don't play politics and have had to tell a scientist that I would work on his project only if management decided to revisit the issue.  He wanted ammunition to reverse a decision that went against him.  Your biggest asset is that you are a neutral third party.  If they don't trust you, they won't work with you.

Bob

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Robert Gallavan
Principal Statistician
I3/Statprobe
------------------------------

First, I thought I should take some time to think about this if I was going to say something but decided "No, you should be able to say something helpful; you have 10 minutes.  I want this on the screen and out of here bY then."

Those of us who have worked in the world of "bosses" know that language.  It is surprising what you can do when someone lights the fire under you.  So what do I have to say?

1.  At the graduate school level, I was introverted and perhaps somewhat smug in that everything back then was mathematics and publishing theorems.  All else was "trivial".  I was proud and humbled when part of my dissertation was published in the Duke Math J.  I showed a high school friend who had become a minister.  He started to read, "Let S be a locally compact semigroup with open simple subsemigroup ....."  He began to giggle and then to laugh.  I asked him what he was laughing about and he said, "This is silly ..!"  I was so introverted into my little world that I did not realize that the rest of the world wants to see something of obvious value and usefulness to them.

2.  Twenty-five years  later I was invited to give a talk at the local university statistics club.  I chose the topic "Statistical Process Control."  Going into the talk,  a Statistics professor friend said slightly sarcastically to me: "Greg, you can say about all there is to day about that stuff in about 10 minutes, can't you?"  Well, I took it all as funny  and continued on into the room with my large processor memory board, some parts and some pictures of $300,000 parts placement machines used in my work at a Corporation at the Circuit Board and computer assembly plant.  At that time we employed nearly 2000 people there.  I talked about how we had decided the Poisson distribution was appropriate for the distribution of missing parts, broken parts, wrong parts and bent leads (at that time it was through hole technology).  I talked about how we used a count or Poisson control chart , fishbones, pareto charts and teamwork to get the defects per 1000 part placements down from 10 per thousand to less than one per 1000 by removing "assignable causes'.  One cause what that the spring loaded tooling plates that held the boards in place, some had weak springs or tension bolts, causing vibration that caused errors.  I showed the distribution of spring strength as measured by a force meter was bimodal.  And so on ...  It must have lasted an hour and 10 minutes and that was the most interesting talk to the students because they saw real instances of what they had been hearing about in classes. Later several professors  wanted my ideas on a grant for a Center for Quality at the university.

So having something real to talk about that interests people regardless of the situation seems to be key.   This takes time and for me a long time as I realized I was a somewhat boring new teacher but if you are working on something like this you don't have to worry about if you are introverted or extroverted -- you are naturally excited and interested  in your topic because it is real.  The careful habits of graduate school help you develop sound approaches to interesting problems. Solving problems like this and with a team of people from different areas of the company I surprisingly found extremely more rewarding that proving theorems.  Since then I have had many adventures learning about interesting problems and people.  It is hard to beat a situation where you are a good contributor but it is a team effort and you can measure results in the language management understands: time, money, etc.

The particular problem above was published in Quality Progress around 1995 I think and one of the professors said, "I have used that example every year."  I told Stuart Hunter about it at a meeting or industrial course he taught on experiments and he got disgusted with me that I did not submit it to , I believe, it was called The Journal of Quality Technology.  I guess I was still introverted and did not think it was hard enough for that level.

The other thing I would say is that the problems of dealing with management are decreasing especially as it becomes indisputably obvious that Statistics and Mathematics are very important in the era of "Big Data".   What I advise majors to do to take a quicker route into being excited is to major in Math and ... or Statistics and ..... Computer Science is a good choice for the second area but really things are blending all together these days and you have degree programs that practically guarantee that you get into the "interesting world" a lot faster than I did. In this world there are no introverts, there are people working together from difference angles solving problems whose value can be expressing to management in the languages of money, time, security, whatever the objective is.

Hope this is helpful and apologize for spelling error but I don't thing this has a spell corrector on it.

James Gregory (Greg) Dobbins

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J. Dobbins
------------------------------

This is an interesting question. First, I would strongly recommend the book mentioned by another person (Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking, by Susan Cain) because, among other things, she distinguishes between two closely related concepts, introversion and shyness. A shy person is actually fearful of many social encounters. The way to overcome shyness is to slowly put yourself in places which you find fearful, but in small doses. Do this repeatedly until you start to desensitize yourself. You never eliminate your fear of social encounters, but you do learn how to cope with your fear.

An introvert is someone who is not fearful of social encounters. Introverts just prefer to socialize with people they already know well or only in small groups. They enjoy parties more if they can find a single person on the periphery to have a quiet talk with rather than being in the middle of everything with people talking all around them. Introverts also are people who like thinking quietly about a problem by themselves more than talking about the problem in a group. Another key characteristic of introverts is that they struggle with "small talk."

Most everyone who has a graduate degree, especially in a field like Statistics, probably has something of an introvert in them. But it's a question of degree. I personally enjoy splitting my time between meeting with people in a consulting environment for half of the day and working on data analyses by myself for the other half of the day. I'd go nuts if my whole day was meeting after meeting after meeting. I'd also go nuts if my whole day was trapped by myself in front of a computer. So consulting is an ideal choice for someone who does not want an extremely extroverted role or an extremely introverted role.

Like many introverts, I tend to enjoy talking when it is about something structured rather than idle chitchat, which makes consulting a good fit for me. If you're an introvert, you'll find your consulting session to be easier if you have something prepared in advance. That's impossible for the first meeting, of course, but something that you can strive for in all your subsequent meetings.

But I am something of an extrovert in that I like people to be with me when I'm running most data analyses, so that I can think out loud with them about what the analysis is saying and what the next steps should be. I think that some of my clients sometimes find this tedious, and I don't make them sit through the data management parts. Some of my clients, though, seem to like watching the data analyses live and they watch intently enough that they can often catch mistakes in my logic. This give and take and back and forth makes for a more productive analysis than if I closed my door, ran all my analyses and then handed them to the client on a silver platter.

Another interesting insight from Susan Cain's book is that an extrovert is someone who comes up with a fast answer and projects self assurance. Surely this is important for a consultant. I don't know about you, but many of my clients are very insecure about Statistics, and they like someone who can give them an answer on the spot and be confident about it. But introverts are great observers and often more skilled at asking insightful questions. Surely this is just as important for a consultant.

Both sides also have their weaknesses. Introverts cannot afford to be wishy washy in their recommendations. I've heard a lot of criticisms of some of my consulting colleagues that they can't seem to make up their mind about a problem and it takes forever to get a definitive answer out of them. This is the classic introvert problem. Another problem with introverts is that they seem to be unwilling to offer an opinion about a question that is only peripherally related to statistics. This leads to a rather narrow view of statisticians as technicians. One reason that statisticians do not find themselves often enough in leadership roles is that they are too likely to take the introverted path. Some of the most effective statisticians that I know have attained their positions of authority because of their natural gregarious extroverted nature.

The weakness of extroverts is that they tend to "shoot from the hip" and offer a solution before really thinking through the problem carefully. Extroverts are also ones who tend to ignore the advice and opinions of others. They're great talkers, but not so good at listening.

These are stereotypes, of course, but stereotypes are often helpful if they are not taken too literally. My opinion is that in any business setting, not just consulting, it helps to be able to swing into an extroverted role or into an introverted role whichever is needed for the problem at hand. Neither a pure introvert nor a pure extrovert is likely to be a successful consultant.

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Stephen Simon
Independent Statistical Consultant
P. Mean Consulting
------------------------------

Actually, rather than defining the person as an introvert, I would define him or her simply as a homophile in that s/he mostly feels comfortable and safe associating with others that have similar interests.  I have seem some folks that I would define as  extroverts but only in the company of those with the same interests.

Frank

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Frank Cohen
Senior Analyst
The Frank Cohen Group, LLC
------------------------------

This is an interesting question. First, I would strongly recommend the book mentioned by another person (Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking, by Susan Cain) because, among other things, she distinguishes between two closely related concepts, introversion and shyness. A shy person is actually fearful of many social encounters. The way to overcome shyness is to slowly put yourself in places which you find fearful, but in small doses. Do this repeatedly until you start to desensitize yourself. You never eliminate your fear of social encounters, but you do learn how to cope with your fear.

An introvert is someone who is not fearful of social encounters. Introverts just prefer to socialize with people they already know well or only in small groups. They enjoy parties more if they can find a single person on the periphery to have a quiet talk with rather than being in the middle of everything with people talking all around them. Introverts also are people who like thinking quietly about a problem by themselves more than talking about the problem in a group. Another key characteristic of introverts is that they struggle with "small talk."

Most everyone who has a graduate degree, especially in a field like Statistics, probably has something of an introvert in them. But it's a question of degree. I personally enjoy splitting my time between meeting with people in a consulting environment for half of the day and working on data analyses by myself for the other half of the day. I'd go nuts if my whole day was meeting after meeting after meeting. I'd also go nuts if my whole day was trapped by myself in front of a computer. So consulting is an ideal choice for someone who does not want an extremely extroverted role or an extremely introverted role.

Like many introverts, I tend to enjoy talking when it is about something structured rather than idle chitchat, which makes consulting a good fit for me. If you're an introvert, you'll find your consulting session to be easier if you have something prepared in advance. That's impossible for the first meeting, of course, but something that you can strive for in all your subsequent meetings.

But I am something of an extrovert in that I like people to be with me when I'm running most data analyses, so that I can think out loud with them about what the analysis is saying and what the next steps should be. I think that some of my clients sometimes find this tedious, and I don't make them sit through the data management parts. Some of my clients, though, seem to like watching the data analyses live and they watch intently enough that they can often catch mistakes in my logic. This give and take and back and forth makes for a more productive analysis than if I closed my door, ran all my analyses and then handed them to the client on a silver platter.

Another interesting insight from Susan Cain's book is that an extrovert is someone who comes up with a fast answer and projects self assurance. Surely this is important for a consultant. I don't know about you, but many of my clients are very insecure about Statistics, and they like someone who can give them an answer on the spot and be confident about it. But introverts are great observers and often more skilled at asking insightful questions. Surely this is just as important for a consultant.

Both sides also have their weaknesses. Introverts cannot afford to be wishy washy in their recommendations. I've heard a lot of criticisms of some of my consulting colleagues that they can't seem to make up their mind about a problem and it takes forever to get a definitive answer out of them. This is the classic introvert problem. Another problem with introverts is that they seem to be unwilling to offer an opinion about a question that is only peripherally related to statistics. This leads to a rather narrow view of statisticians as technicians. One reason that statisticians do not find themselves often enough in leadership roles is that they are too likely to take the introverted path. Some of the most effective statisticians that I know have attained their positions of authority because of their natural gregarious extroverted nature.

The weakness of extroverts is that they tend to "shoot from the hip" and offer a solution before really thinking through the problem carefully. Extroverts are also ones who tend to ignore the advice and opinions of others. They're great talkers, but not so good at listening.

These are stereotypes, of course, but stereotypes are often helpful if they are not taken too literally. My opinion is that in any business setting, not just consulting, it helps to be able to swing into an extroverted role or into an introverted role whichever is needed for the problem at hand. Neither a pure introvert nor a pure extrovert is likely to be a successful consultant.

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Stephen Simon
Independent Statistical Consultant
P. Mean Consulting
------------------------------

Attachment(s)

POWER Structure for LISA Statistical Collaboration Meetin...pdf   323 KB 1 version

This regards the comment that preparation is "impossible for the first meeting, of course".

On  my first meeting with clients, I ask them to start by describing their "landscape", goals, experimental design as far as it has gotten, and patient/subject availability. This gives me a structure to start on, provides some understanding of the project, lets me size up the clients for how best to work with them, and gives me a chance to think about how to approach the project statistically. This gives them a chance to show knowledge and establish self-confidence, reduce intimidation many feel about statistics, and feel that I'm interested in the real base rather than issuing cut-n-dried analytic procedures. When done gently and with respect, it works really well. I watch their apprehension--whether aggressiveness, fear, embarrassment at knowing little statistics, or concern about losing control of their project--go from boil to simmer to still water.

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Bob Riffenburgh
Naval Medical Center
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In order to discuss this issue we first need to agree on how to define introvert and extrovert and on how to distinguish between the two.
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Emil M Friedman, PhD
emil.friedman@alum.mit.edu (forwards to day job)
emilfrie@alumni.princeton.edu (home)
http://www.statisticalconsulting.org
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In order to discuss this issue we first need to agree on how to define introvert and extrovert and on how to distinguish between the two.
------------------------------
Emil M Friedman, PhD
emil.friedman@alum.mit.edu (forwards to day job)
emilfrie@alumni.princeton.edu (home)
http://www.statisticalconsulting.org
------------------------------

Hi CNSL members,

I also have taught courses on Statistical Consulting and consider myself an introvert.  

1.  What I enjoy about statistical consulting is that it forces me to learn new things.  Many introverts in the statistics field really enjoy learning (myself included).  I find that often I get to learn many new things both about statistics and about an application area.  I also find that it helps me to "break out" of my shell.  

2.  The biggest thing I struggle with is anxiety.  Often meeting people who are experts in their fields is a bit intimidating especially if they have a dominant personality.  If it is a one on one meeting I am usually fine.  However if the meeting is a large group of people the anxiety drives me to be quiet (often when I shouldn't be).

One other comment.  The longer I have worked as a consultant the lower my anxiety has become with the usual clients.  I still become very anxious with dominant people.

Thanks to Kim for bringing up this conversation and I look forward hearing from other introverts.  (And yes I have a bit of anxiety replying to all of you.)

 Ed

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Edward Boone
Associate Professor of Statistics Director of Statistics and Analytics Consulting Lab

Virginia Commonwealth University

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Hello all,

This discussion has been quite interesting.  As others have commented, I see myself as an introvert in some situations but very much an extrovert in other situations.  I enjoy meeting with others regardless of the number of people, and I enjoy teaching, even large classes.  Similar to others, I enjoy statistical consulting because I get to learn about both statistics and the subject of the consulting/collaboration.  Like Ed, I can be very quiet when meeting with someone who is a "big name," which also leads to me having more trouble networking.  

Given the number of people who do have some aspect of being an introvert I wonder if most of us don't have some area where we tend to be more introverted.  I did appreciate Eric Vance's comments about how the POWER structure provides the structure both introverts and extroverts need; introverts know how to have a conversation, while extroverts are kept in check.  Still, I wonder if even those who need to be kept in check don't have some aspect of an introvert.

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Robert Podolsky
Associate Professor
Wayne State University
------------------------------

Interesting discussion!  I'm not sure I qualify as an introvert, but I do consider myself a loner.  I am one of those people who totally dreads the thought of going out into a big social setting (parties, mixers, conference luncheons, etc) but once I get there I am comfortable with the interactions and I am usually glad I made the effort.

With regards to statistical consulting, I enjoy it because I learn something new everyday.  I love a good problem!

What is the hardest for me in consulting? The need to repeat myself.  Once I have solved a problem, I feel that I am finished and that everyone else should simply understand what the outcome means.  But I have to remind myself that others (usually non-statistical clients) are not at the same place in coming to the solution.  Sometimes it takes repeating the same thing, but in different ways, in order to bring them understand and appreciate the solution.  The process can be frustrating, but the end "ah ha!" is so worth it.

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Susan Spruill
Statistical Consultant
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All, thank you very much for your personal experiences and insights. I've only briefly read through your replies but will be giving them more review and thought in the coming days.

There were a few things that stood out to me, and in particular a couple of folks asked about definitions and for me to define my questions more clearly. I hesitated to do this because I have to admit I only have a surface knowledge of the differences between extroverts and introverts. Despite this, I know what being extroverted means for me, and I thought that at this point in the discussion, those who see themselves as introverts or some combination could define better what that means for them than I could. I also felt they could define the areas in which they might struggle better than I could.

Given that, here is the discussion on introversion according to the Encyclopedia Britannica (http://www.britannica.com/topic/introvert) and based on the theories of Carl Jung:

According to these theories, an introvert is a person whose interest is generally directed inward toward his own feelings and thoughts, in contrast to an extrovert, whose attention is directed toward other people and the outside world. The typical introvert is shy, contemplative, and reserved and tends to have difficulty adjusting to social situations. Excessive daydreaming and introspection, careful balancing of considerations before reaching decisions, and withdrawal under stress are also typical of the introverted personality. The extrovert, by contrast, is characterized by outgoingness, responsiveness to other persons, activity, aggressiveness, and the ability to make quick decisions.

This article goes on to make it clear that these are overly simplistic characterizations, and many people will have a mixture of these traits in response to different situations; as the article says, we are typically "ambiverts".

Thank you all again for the interesting discussion!

Kim

All, thank you very much for your personal experiences and insights. I've only briefly read through your replies but will be giving them more review and thought in the coming days.

There were a few things that stood out to me, and in particular a couple of folks asked about definitions and for me to define my questions more clearly. I hesitated to do this because I have to admit I only have a surface knowledge of the differences between extroverts and introverts. Despite this, I know what being extroverted means for me, and I thought that at this point in the discussion, those who see themselves as introverts or some combination could define better what that means for them than I could. I also felt they could define the areas in which they might struggle better than I could.

Given that, here is the discussion on introversion according to the Encyclopedia Britannica (http://www.britannica.com/topic/introvert) and based on the theories of Carl Jung:

According to these theories, an introvert is a person whose interest is generally directed inward toward his own feelings and thoughts, in contrast to an extrovert, whose attention is directed toward other people and the outside world. The typical introvert is shy, contemplative, and reserved and tends to have difficulty adjusting to social situations. Excessive daydreaming and introspection, careful balancing of considerations before reaching decisions, and withdrawal under stress are also typical of the introverted personality. The extrovert, by contrast, is characterized by outgoingness, responsiveness to other persons, activity, aggressiveness, and the ability to make quick decisions.

This article goes on to make it clear that these are overly simplistic characterizations, and many people will have a mixture of these traits in response to different situations; as the article says, we are typically "ambiverts".

Thank you all again for the interesting discussion!

Kim

Annette,

Thanks for this reply--I originally started to comment on the way that the definition from the Encyclopedia Britannica contained some potentially negative connotations ("daydreaming" is usually associated with not paying attention, "difficulty adjusting to social situations" does sound almost like a disorder, etc.), which is why I hesitated to include such a thing in the first place. Of course, being "aggressive" on the side of an extrovert could also be seen as negative, and in the end I just decided to leave out my personal comments, since there is so much that could be said I would leave something out no matter what.

Your points are well taken. I am pretty squarely extroverted; though I used to have many more introverted tendencies when I was young, I find it hard to relate to them anymore. This is why I chose to reach out and asked to hear specifically from introverts and/or those who had studied the subject on a deeper level, because it can be very easy to make judgments of others when you don't have that deeper understanding. I suspect that the way that I teach consulting and the principles behind it may be colored by my extroverted approach to life without my even realizing it, which is why this was so important to me. I especially want to be careful not to color the character of those who consider themselves more introverted in this discussion!

A final comment from me: extroversion/introversion is just one aspect of each individual's personality, and it is quite distinct from the skills and talents that any individual might possess.

As I said to one person who replied to me privately, I have already ordered "Quiet" and it will be arriving at my home tomorrow. I'm looking forward to reading it.

Kim

For everyone who hasn't read Susan Cain's Quiet yet, I recommend watching her TED Talk first: Susan Cain: The power of introverts Then go ahead and read the book if you want to hear more.

I teach "Communication in Statistical Collaborations" (it goes way beyond a typical "consulting" course) and having read the book I actually did change how I teach. Instead of having class discussions in which one student at a time comments, I now use small group discussions so that 7 students are commenting at a time (last semester I had 7 teams of 4 students). Before any team assignment I provide time for individual thinking and reflection. I already mentioned using the POWER structure. I was never big on recommending my students chit-chat with clients and now part of the POWER structure is to greet the client to make him or her feel comfortable.The focus is on providing a comfortable environment for the client, introverted students seem to do much better than if the focus were on the statistical collaborator to make small talk.

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Eric Vance, Chair of CNSL
Virginia Tech-Laboratory for Interdisciplinary Statistical Analysis (LISA)
Director and Associate Research Professor
Blacksburg VA, United States
------------------------------

I am sorry this is really not in relation to this thread but seems an easy way to put a query out to the SRM group.

Does anyone have experience with RAT STATS? It is the official auditing software of the OIG.  I sometimes do sampling,

work with reviewers who then give me corrections to audited amounts. I then project overpayments. I have been doing this with SAS. I have RAT STATS and have a few simple questions from the manual directions.

I would appreciate a contact or two on this for questions.

Thanks in advance for any help.  One question is given a universe of payments how to submit this to RAT STATS so that RAT STATS (RS)returns the universe with a list of random numbers adjoined as a first column or entry in a csv file. Then it is simple to get a random sample. Just sort ascending on the first column and take the top 100 rows if that is your sample size. RS seems to want to generate the randoms and let you adjoin them. I would prefer the package do this.

The RS random number generator is considered superior to SAS in that it passes all 13 tests of NBS whereas SAS does not. That at least is my understanding.

However, as you know, SAS does not choke or bog down with millions of records. I do not know if RS does or not.  That is the sort of questions I have. I have been attracted to RAT STATS since it does all the confidence intervals and reporting for the overpayment.  Heretofore, I just but the formulas in excel and generated projections, point estimates and CIs that way. However, doing things in Excel is subject to criticism.

Thanks in advance.

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J. Dobbins
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Kim

Thank you so much for this question. I had just finished reading "Quiet" when I saw your post. This book really provided a great insight for me.

You are right that most introverts can be quite social but it is draining and generally not something we seek out. Our comments are few and generally carefully chosen. One of the points in the book was that the introvert will generally avoid public speaking until they have a strong cause to step forward. This was my situation. It wasn't until I saw others teaching statistics in a poor manner with many incorrect statements that I had to overcome my desire to be quiet to speak up. I worked in an automotive company but each day was a real drain on me and I felt I could not keep this up. After ten years, I left and joined a small consulting firm. This work gave me the downtime I needed but plenty of teaching time and consulting time. 

Several decades later, I still prefer to work in smaller groups and with individuals.

I had the incredible great fortune in graduate school to have an assistantship with the consulting professors at FSU in the statistics department. This consisted of accompanying Prof. Doug Zahn and Prof. Duane Meeter on their various consulting assignments around the university. I remember one time I was with Prof. Zahn and we were working with a Prof. in biology. We were presented with a set of data and typical of Prof. Zahn he turned to me, before he spoke, and asked me what "we should do with this data?". It was a great strategy because it forced me to speak up and give my thoughts on the situation. But I remember thinking to myself that we were really in trouble here if the a Harvard Phd. graduate didn't know what to do! Of course he did but he was pulling me into the session by giving me a chance to give input before he spoke.

I would encourage you to recommend this book to all of your students. I wish I could have read it many years ago. It gives a fascinating look into the life on introverts. Give the introvert a chance to speak up and draw them out when given the chance.

Dr. W. Edwards Deming was a mentor to me for 13 years. I felt that he was an introvert. He chose his words carefully and while consulting was quite quiet but asked very carefully worded and insightful questions. I feel in the world of statistics, this is incredibly important. You have to be a great listener (as most introverts will be) to gather all the important information during a consulting session.

One of my "introvert" characteristics is the preference to have time alone during problem solving, rather than give "final" recommendations in a group setting.  This makes me more effective at iterative problem solving, and less effective in consulting situations which require a strategy to be selected in a single meeting.

Wendy Gelberg is another author (in addition to Susan Cain) who addresses strategies for introverts.  A year ago I was in a job search group that she facilitated.  She is a very effective facilitator and workshop presenter, yet prefers to do her preparation in her own quiet settings.  This was contrasted by her equally effective co-facilitator, who loves to prepare materials in a group setting.  Both of them were good listeners and coaches.

Wendy's book for introverts is "The Successful Introvert: How to Enhance Your Job Search and Advance Your Career".  This book is designed to help introverts play to their strengths and to work through their weaknesses, rather than tell them to act like extroverts.  While I hadn't thought of this context before, the book may be helpful for introverted statisticians who need strategies for promoting their services and gaining clients.