Discussion: View Thread

Consulting Contract Question

  • 1.  Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-29-2014 19:45
    I'm curious if anyone has come across something like this. I'm talking to a company about doing some consulting - mainly high level advising of design of studies and helping them hire junior people,  with perhaps analysis in the future.
    There is a clause in the contract that reads:
    (c) Rates. Consultant represents that the rate charged for the Services performed hereunder is at least as favorable 
    as that charged by Consultant to any other client for the same or similar services.
    This seems a bit odd to me b/c I don't see why my rates for one company should impact my rates for another. I did quote this company a higher rate but that is partially because I received an academic promotion so have more credentials (if you will).
    I'm curious how you would handle this? Would you ignore it or bring it up? I'm inclined to ignore it because while I am charging them more, I have never done the high level advising thing (only data analysis) so I suppose I can argue my way out of that should it come up. And I doubt in the future I would drop my rates below what I am charging this company unless there were extenuating circumstances (non-profit, extremely interesting work etc.).
    Curious on anyone's thoughts though.
    Ben

    -------------------------------------------
    Benjamin Goldstein
    Assistant Professor Biostatistics
    Duke University
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-29-2014 20:13
    Is this  a contract with a pharma company? If so then under various laws, pharma is required to hire consultants at a regular market rate (although that is understood to be difficult to define).
    What pharma doesn't want is to have the consultant, say, charge double to pharma vs. other clients.

    Do you have your own  attorney review your contracts? Or you can ask the clients attorney.

    -------------------------------------------
    Chris Barker, Ph.D.
    Consultant and
    Adjunct Associate Professor of Biostatistics
    www,barkerstats.com

    ---
    "In composition you have all the time you want to decide what to say in 15 seconds, in improvisation you have 15 seconds."
    -Steve Lacy
    -------------------------------------------




  • 3.  RE:Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-29-2014 20:54
    Ben:

    I would ignore it. The key clause is "for similar services". I think you can always argue that your services were unique to this client.

    I charge all pharmaceutical companies the same rate. I might charge companies in another industry a different rate if I really wanted to get into that area.

    -------------------------------------------
    Roy Tamura
    Associate Professor
    University of South Florida
    -------------------------------------------





  • 4.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-29-2014 21:05
    As an acting corporate CEO, I have modified, analyzed and written numerous contracts.

    First of all, you cannot ignore ANYTHING in a contract.  Once it's in writing and you sign it, you are locked in.  If I were you, I would red line out the rate paragraph and replace it with "rates are based on analyst's credentials and experience, as well as requirements of the project," or some such. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael J. Anderson
    -------------------------------------------




  • 5.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-29-2014 23:45

    Perhaps you should 1st write up a schedule of services & rates to guide your present & future pricing, along the lines of:
    "Data analysis, $100/hr", "Study design consulting & advisement, $150/hr";  "Junior level Project staffing, "$180/hr".  Use the same wording under description of services in a new contract, and an average of the prices for the services you will be performing for them.
    You could also list dates of changes of prices, e.g., ".... for contracts begun before Aug 1, $100 for Data analysis; $125 after that time."

    It would help clarify your thinking and rationalize your prices. If they pushback on your prices vis-a-vis your prices for other work, you should be able to point out what you did differently at other companies, and refer to the schedule for your prices at the time of an earlier contract.  I'm not sure though if there would need to be some sort of legal filing for it.

    -------------------------------------------
    Dennis Sweitzer
    Principal Biostatistician
    Medidata Solutions
    -------------------------------------------




  • 6.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-30-2014 16:09

    Benjamin,

    I long ago learned the power of "just saying no" in contract negotiations.  The vast majority of stuff I cross out, with only a cursory explanation of why (no need to write paragraphs) is accepted with no objection whatsoever.  I'm not shy about crossing out lots of things, either.  It's often standard boilerplate whose purpose was long forgotten, or stuff some lazy lawyer put in either so they could use the same contract for everything or to avoid having to question the client as to what protections they really needed.  If there's an actual reason for it that applies to your situation, you'll hear about it once you say "no," and can go from there.

    And, while I'm not a lawyer, it's hard to imagine any need to justify or explain rates in the contract itself.  The contract need only say "the rate is $x" -- not explain where it came from.  The client, and you, legitimately care about what you're getting paid.  Where that number came from is mostly just story-telling. 

    I have occasionally antagonized purchasing types, and once or twice even lawyers, with a hardline "no" on stuff that's not acceptable.  But that's remarkably rare, and the actual client I will be working with hardly ever cares, or is on my side, or often, is even embarrassed at what's in their boilerplate.  I stress to them that I'm very open to things that protect their legitimate actual interests, assuming they can articulate those, just not to irrelevant, inappropriate or overreaching canned language.  Only very rarely have I lost opportunities with this approach.

    I do agree with Michael that what's in the contract matters.  I won't sign stuff I don't understand or don't intend to abide by.  And I seldom consult my own lawyer on these things -- if their side can't explain it to my satisfaction, or they just say "it's standard, don't worry about it", I just say "no".  Only if they have a need and rationale that makes sense but you're still uneasy, or if you see stuff unlike anything you've ever had your lawyer review before, do you need to incur your own legal bills.

    All of this presumes that the client actually wants to hire you.  If you're being asked to sign boilerplate just for the opportunity to talk to them or to bid, you're not in a very powerful position and have to think carefully about how hard a line to take.  In that case, a quick phone call asking about the intent or importance of the problem clauses may be a good idea, after which you can decide how badly you want to pursue it.  But I'd still not sign anything I didn't intend to abide by.

         Regards,
           
                Dave



    -------------------------------------------
    David Lyon
    Aurora Market Modeling, LLC
    -------------------------------------------




  • 7.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-30-2014 17:01
    While I realize that it is often easy to forget this when dealing with a corporate entity and you feel like a small, independent supplier, remember that the purpose of a contract is to outline the rights and responsibilities of both parties.  That clause is, quite frankly, a heavy-handed attempt to bully you.  I would cross it out without any comment, and if they made a fuss about it I would take that as a very valuable piece of data.  The net effect if they made a fuss -- I would walk, probably after telling them to pound sand.

    -------------------------------------------
    David Mangen
    Owner
    Mangen Research Associates, Inc.
    -------------------------------------------




  • 8.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-29-2014 22:03
    Officially I have two hourly rates in my consulting practice, one for large clients and one for smaller clients. For smaller clients I sometimes work on a per-project basis. I would bring it up just to be sure, my guess is they would not mind the change suggested by another responder. Regards,

    =Matt

    Matthew G. Mercurio, Ph.D.

    Applied Statistical Consultant

    mmercurio@nexant.com

    http://www.MGMAppliedConsulting.com

     

    Office: (415) 419-5009

    Cell: (415) 517-2153





  • 9.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 08-31-2014 11:54
    Thank you everyone for the feedback. I agree with the sentiment that there is nothing wrong with asking them to amend that clause - everything else seems straightforward. I also agree that if they are unwilling to change that clause that may be an indication of a company with whom I don't want to work.

    As one newer to consulting it is great to get the perspective.

    Best,

    Ben

    -------------------------------------------
    Benjamin Goldstein
    Assistant Professor Biostatistics
    Duke University
    -------------------------------------------




  • 10.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 09-05-2014 09:43
    Just want to follow-up and let folks know that the company had no problem removing the clause. Just proves someone else's point that a lot of these contracts are likely written by lawyers and the clients themselves likely don't care much about the specifics.

    Thanks Again.

    Ben

    -------------------------------------------
    Benjamin Goldstein
    Assistant Professor Biostatistics
    Duke University
    -------------------------------------------




  • 11.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 09-02-2014 10:38
    If you sign a contract saying "Consultant represents that the rate charged for the Services performed hereunder is at least as favorable 
    as that charged by Consultant to any other client for the same or similar services" then charging them a higher rate sounds dishonest to me.  Starting a project under those circumstances and intending the argue ones way out of it if they find out just compounds the problem.

    As consultants, we need people know they can trust us to be as honest and unbiased as possible.  Before taking on a project, I told a defense attorney, "I'll give you the most honest answer I can, even if its favorable to the prosecution and I'll do the same thing if I get called as a witness.  Can you live with that?"  I did the project on a billable hours basis.  I could easily have fudged my hours, but to do so would have been totally hypocritical.  If we're not trustworthy on one thing then we're not trustworthy on anything.
    -------------------------------------------
    Emil M Friedman, PhD
    emil.friedman@alum.mit.edu (forwards to day job)
    emilfrie@alumni.princeton.edu (home)
    http://www.statisticalconsulting.org
    -------------------------------------------




  • 12.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 09-03-2014 09:10
    I have recently starting seeing this wording on contracts as well.  I read it to mean that my rates are constant across all clients and if not then I have provided the perspective client with my lowest rate.  First of all, my rates are not the same for all clients.  This is mainly due to having a rate increase and contracts lagging in their renewal.  I usually bring my rates up as contracts are renegotiated.  Second, it is not anyone else's business what I charge my other clients.  As a matter of fact, I provide consulting gratis to students, so technically my lowest rate is $0.

    In those cases when this language has surfaced, I have requested it be removed and replaced with wording like "Consultant represents that the rate charged is fair and accurate for the services performed under this contract".  I have never had a client disagree with the change.  It is important to thoroughly read your new contracts, even those that are being renewed.

    -------------------------------------------
    Susan Spruill
    Statistical Consultant
    -------------------------------------------




  • 13.  RE: Consulting Contract Question

    Posted 09-03-2014 18:30
    Your out is using "the same or similar services".  Every client is a little different and their problems require a little different expertise so you can say that you are charging for the type of services needed.  You learn something every time you work on a project, so your level of expertise is continually increasing.  So you can ignore the statement or request it be replaced as Susan suggests.

    -------------------------------------------
    George Milliken
    -------------------------------------------