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  • 1.  Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-04-2016 17:31

    I'm the current director of a Master's program in Epidemiology and Biostatistics. In the past, we have recruited in pre-med programs as well as in mathematics departments. I'm wondering if that is enough... We have had strong candidates that have heard of our program through the grapevine with varying backgrounds - one successful graduate was once a pastry chef for Charlie Trotter! I'm wondering where other programs have "advertised" and if anyone would want to share some of the more unique paths to get to being a statistician or biostatistician.

    Just wondering on a somewhat gloomy first day back after the break.

    Best,

    Mary 

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    Mary Kwasny
    Associate Professor
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  • 2.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-05-2016 07:49

    Hey Mary,

    I've always enjoyed talking with biostatisticians that came from a science background. Far too many statisticians come from a pure math/stats background for my taste. Most are great at analyzing messy data, yet fall short in understanding where the data comes from and what can be done with it. I've had several discussions with PhD statisticians about elementary ideas from chemistry/science.

    Simple ideas for a chemist. Completely foreign ideas for most statisticians. Usually, these conversations end with, "Oh really? Why didn't professor X say you can do that?" The sad answer is, most scientists have less than an AP high school level of training in stats. Most think multiple regression techniques don't exist because, "You can't change more than one thing at a time!"

    At the MS/MPH level, most programs require students to all start at nearly the same place anyway. So why not allow biology, biochem, chem students start by taking an intro to biostats course or 2. 

    It might help too, if your department allows students to work on dual degrees and let's them take cognate courses in their home departments. (U of Mich does this. Don't know about Northwestern.) I might ask, if not demand some of the biostats profs reach out to science departments on your campus. It wouldnt surprise me to find out a chemist that takes 6-8 stats/biostats classes will make an excellent chemometricist. (They'll at least know what they are doing and what others get wrong.)

    With the right electives, and an allowance for genetics/molecular biology students to substitute a Bioinformatics course or two for a "regression analysis 5 & 6" class can help attract bio students. (Most of the biostatistics programs by me require 5-6 regression modeling classes. The last 2 tend to cover the same thing as other 4, just in less detail and have the same pre-reqs and only add to student loan debts, not gained knowledge.) 

    If you can cross list some courses, or count them as equivelent, you might be able to get some econ, psychology, industrial engineering students to do dual degrees too... or at least take some extra biostats classes. (Oddly, industrial engineering students cover many of the same topics as biostats students. They just do it faster with more applications.) 

    If there was an "applied biostats" track for MS/MPH students, (where they skip a lot of the heavy theory based courses and take relevant other courses) I would suspect that will attract interested science students and help keep them there. 

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    Andrew Ekstrom



  • 3.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-05-2016 16:09

    I must agree with the suggestion that any Master's program in Stats include significant exposure to various areas of application, as opposed to concentrations on theory.

    I was lucky (?) enough to to attend a Master's program that was just starting at the University of Arkansas. Because of this there was a shortage of courses in the Math department, so I attended Design of Experiments in the Agronomy department, Simulations, Sampling and Advanced Distributions in the Industrial Engineering Department. Because of this, I had significant exposure to a variety of applications. There were also courses in the Psych Department, Education, and Business. Today, there are additional courses in BioStats and other fields. Each of these have some of the same basic  statistics with their own little tweaks for the specific applications.

    When I counsel new analysts one of the first things I tell them (with a smile) is to forget what they learned in school, especially regarding constraints on how when and how to use various analytical tools. The key is to try to understand what works and you can only find that out by trying various solutions and having the appropriate samples to test the results.

    One of the advantages of having an advanced stats background is understanding when and how to use the tools and how to interpret the results. Certainly, understanding the limitations is important; but, one of the best tools a stats person has is common sense, and that common sense comes with experience. Which is why students should be exposed to a lot of data from a lot of different applications AND those examples should include data that has flaws to give the students experience in data cleansing.

    As an independent reviewer in the latter stages of my career, I saw too many analysts who didn't know how to look at the initial data exploration to see if the basic stats "made sense." Part of "making sense" is to understand the area of application, which requires becoming familiar with the area of application itself. Do the variable distributions make sense for the are of application? If this is a model, do the bi-variate relationships with the target make sense? In other applications do the preliminary results make sense?

    No matter how good your automated analytical tools, you can't teach it common sense. There are no shortcuts.

    Building models or completing sophisticated analysis based on flawed data either results in bad analysis or having to do everything from scratch when the final results are garbage (GIGO).

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    Michael Mout
    MIKS



  • 4.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-05-2016 15:59

    Mary, Your question reminds me of a conversation I had with my sister once.  She is an OB-GYN and while she was in med school, I inquired into the educational training of the other med students in her class...assuming all had strong biology backgrounds.  I was surprised to find out that they were of quite varied backgrounds, biology, history, english lit, etc.  Her point was that the formal educational background was less important than the aptitude of the student to quickly get up to speed on the current subject matter.  These students had to prove that aptitude by taking the MCATs, of course.  While we may not have such a tool (and I don't recommend one), it opens us up to the fact that statisticians can have a wide variety of interests that lead us to pursue other careers before we come home to roost.

    I would recommend throwing as wide a net as your admissions team can tolerate.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

    Kind regards,

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    Susan Spruill
    Statistical Consultant
    Susan

    beekeeper

    horse rancher

    off-grid organic farmer

    biostatistics consultant



  • 5.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-05-2016 16:01

    Hi Mary & Joseph,

    I have taught both statistics to math/stat majors, and also biostatistics to MPH students, and then also statistics to students from a variety of disciplines, such as Psychology and Environmental Sciences. It is easier for a math/stat student to learn material from other disciplines, such as medical courses or courses related to the MPH in general, than it is for a (say) Biology major to fully understand advanced biostatiostical courses.

    Therefore, I would like to see more math/stat graduates entering the PH programs.  It is a part of the statistics training to be open to other disciplines and to learn "from them" so that better modeling and better analyses can be done. My own academic life has been mostly about interdisciplinary research for myself and over the past thrity years. It comes natural. 

    Best,

    Raid

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    Raid Amin
    Professor
    University of West Florida



  • 6.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-05-2016 16:01

    Don't overlook the life sciences.  I've had colleagues that first had degrees in Biology (a masters) and chemistry (had worked as a chemist a few years).  I also know some who were studying for an MPH that moved into biostatistics because that's the part they really liked.

    Another demographic, perhaps more challenging to reach, is those with less than 3-5 years' experience working after a bachelor's degree.  Some statisticians I know moved into the field after they saw the demand, the type of work, and the good compensation.

    Of course, along with math departments, I'd look at undergrad stat departments within the geography that might be interested in your institution's location.

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    Mark Martin



  • 7.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-05-2016 16:02

    Hello Mary,

    I came into statistics after completing an undergraduate degree in computer science.  So you might consider that also. I have also had in my masters level classes people who are working on a second masters degree.  Many of them come from psychology, bioengineering, nursing and similar fields.  I have also had a few students with legal and paralegal backgrounds who had worked on some cases that required data analysis and it led them to a statistics or biostatistics degree.

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    Domenic Reda
    Research Associate Professor
    President-Elect, Society for Clinical Trials



  • 8.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-05-2016 16:04

    My route to a MPH with dual biometrics and epidemiology concentrations from The Ohio State University College of Public Health was through The Ohio State University College of Pharmacy Pharmaceutical Administration Program (i.e., heath economics and outcomes research -HEOR). My PhD concentration was biostatistics as it applied to HEOR).  In practice a large part of economic modeling in the pharmaceutical sector involves biostatics and epidemiology; hence the departments offering health economics should highly value biostatistics and epidemiology curricula.

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    Mark E. Boye, MBA, MS, MPH, PhD
    Principal Research Scientist, Oncology
    Global Patient Outcomes and Real World Evidence (GPORWE)
    Eli Lilly and Company



  • 9.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-06-2016 13:58

    I have taught intro and intermediate statistics at a few universities and I found that economics students seemed to naturally gravitate to statistics and several changed their majors once they took a few classes. Some quantitative psychology and sociology students also seem to gravitate naturally to the field. The university I am currently at has a many students from natural resources get advanced degrees in statistics to supplement their current field or because they found they like statistics better than ecology or whichever science they were studying. Natural resources is closely tied to biostatistics so that may be a good place to look. We have also had some genetics students move over to statistics as well. What often happens (and what happened to me) is that students love a certain area of study and eventually discover that they like the role that the biostatistician plays in that field more than the role pure scientist in that field. It may be wise to look at the branches of science that biostatistics serves and recruit in those departments. 

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    Jill Lundell



  • 10.  RE: Routes leading to Statistics/Biostatistics

    Posted 01-06-2016 13:54

    Hi Mary,

    As a child I wanted to be a Veterinarian.  Therefore my undergraduate major was Animal Science with a lot of courses in chemistry, biology etc etc.  I became very interested in Genetics and Animal Breeding, therefore went on for an MS in Animal Science and a PhD in Dairy Science with focus on genetics and statistics.   After graduation, due to both family commitments and job availability,  I worked as a Statistician for a nursing school for 5 years, then took my current position where for the past 26 years I have been a Biostatistician.

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    Deborah Hustead