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Example zero correlation implies independence

  • 1.  Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-03-2016 06:08
    Please tell me an example different that the bivariate normal case



    Sergio Yáñez Canal
    Profesor
    Universidad Nacional
    Medellín


  • 2.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-03-2016 06:24

    An example with a continuous bivariate distribution not the discrete illustations

    Bibliography, please

    ------------------------------
    Sergio Yanez-Canal
    Universidad Nacional-Medellin



  • 3.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 03:56
    This type of question is quite close to the ancient, but still fun, question of "characterizations of the Gaussian distribution".

    Many different results of that type (some of which will provide answers to the present question) can be found in:

    Patel, J. K., & Read, C. B. (1996). Handbook of the normal distribution (Vol. 150). CRC Press.

    Best,
    Steve






  • 4.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 11:44

    Thank you very much.

    That discussion of no characterization of the Bivariate Normal was my concern

    ------------------------------
    Sergio Yanez-Canal
    Universidad Nacional-Medellin



  • 5.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 11:57

    The correlation coefficient does not distribute itself according to the normal distribution.

    best,

    ------------------------------
    Gretchen Donahue



  • 6.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 01:43

    It does not. There are counter examples -  or is that what you are looking for? 

    ------------------------------
    Kenneth Burnham
    Colorado State University



  • 7.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 02:04

    Three related examples I use for training:

    Hope this helps! Regards,

    Veronica

    ------------------------------
    Dr Veronica Czitrom
    CEO
    Statistical Training and Consulting



  • 8.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 04:05

    Dear Veronica,

    these are very nice examples.

    Kind regards,
    Christian

    ------------------------------
    Christian Graf
    Dipl.-Math.
    Qualitaetssicherung & Statistik

    "To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what the experiment died of."

    Ronald Fisher in 'Presidential Address by Professor R. A. Fisher, Sc.D., F.R.S. Sankhyā: The Indian Journal of Statistics (1933-1960), Vol. 4, No. 1 (1938), pp. 14-17'



  • 9.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 08:37

     

    Bivariate Exponential Distributions in Reliability Theory

    F. Downton
    Journal of the Royal Statistical Society. Series B (Methodological)
    Vol. 32, No. 3 (1970), pp. 408-417
     
    Hello:
    The Downton's bivariate exponential distribution has the property that 0 correlation is equivalent to independence.  The original paper reference is given above.
    Raj
    ------------------------------
    Haikady Nagaraja
    Ohio State University



  • 10.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-04-2016 11:47

    Thank you.

    That is a very good example.

    ------------------------------
    Sergio Yanez-Canal
    Universidad Nacional-Medellin



  • 11.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-05-2016 18:17

    For normal data the sample mean A and standard deviation S are
    stochastically independent, even though not functionally independent
    (because A appears in the formula for S). Accordingly, if one takes a
    large number m of samples of size n, and plots the m pairs (A, S),
    there is no hint of association and the sample correlation of A and S
    is very near 0. This independence of A and S holds only for normal
    data.

    One of my favorite examples of zero correlation *with* association
    is to do the same procedure as above, but with data from the bathtub
    shaped distribution BETA(.3, .3). The symmetry implies 0 correlation,
    so one wonders how the inevitable association of A and S will
    manifest itself. Here is a plot of S against A for m = 50,0000 and
    n = 5. In effect, the transformation from 5-D data space to (A, S)
    has 'squashed' the 5-D unit hypercube into 2 dimensions. Because
    BETA(.3, .3) places much probability near faces, edges, and corners
    of the hypercube, vestiges of them are visible in the plot of S vs A.
    The sample correlation of A and S for the picture shown is 
    r = -0.0002795444.

    R code:

    m = 50000; n = 5; x = rbeta(m*n, .3, .3)
    DTA = matrix(x, nrow=m)
    a = rowMeans(DTA)
    s = apply(DTA, 1, sd)
    plot(a, s, pch="."); cor(a,s)

    ------------------------------
    Bruce Trumbo



  • 12.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-06-2016 10:01

    Very nice illustrtion of that point.

    But my question goes in the direction of characterization.

    For example on your words:

    "This independence of A and S holds only for normal
    data." Is this a characterization of the Normal or there is another one with that property ?

    Best regards

    ------------------------------
    Sergio Yanez-Canal
    Universidad Nacional-Medellin



  • 13.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-08-2016 11:36
    See if this works:
    Let U and X be any independent pair of variables, each with finite variance,
    and let Y=bX+U.
    Then X and Y are uncorrelated if and only if b=0, and are independent if and only if b=0.
    So for this X and Y, zero correlation implies independence.
    Note that no distributional form was assumed for these variables, only finite variance (so the correlation exists).
    I'd be curious if I made a mistake here but if not the example shows that independence = uncorrelatedness is in no way unique to the bivariate normal.
    What is unique is that every linear combination of X and Y (every line transect through their joint distribution) is normal if and only if X and Y are bivariate normal, a much stronger condition.






  • 14.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-09-2016 19:46
    Remarkable construction!!!!!!
    You solved the question in a very ingenuous way.
    Thank you very much.

    Note: a small detail:
    Also assume X a non-degenarate random variable.

    Best Regards

    --
    Sergio Yáñez
    Profesor Asociado Escuela de Estadística
    Universidad Nacional de Colombia, Sede Medellín





  • 15.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-10-2016 12:17

    It should be noted that Sam Kotz, in 2001, published  a book "Correlation and Dependence" which discusses many of the points raised above.  

    ------------------------------
    Hoben Thomas
    Pennsylvania State University



  • 16.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-10-2016 13:45

    As a matter of fact that is the book which make me raise the question: they suggest that in the continuous case zero correlation implies independence only for the bivariate Normal. 

    I mean the book by

    Dominique Drouet Mari (Université de Bretagne Sud, France), Samuel Kotz (George Washington University, USA)

    ------------------------------
    Sergio Yanez-Canal
    Universidad Nacional-Medellin



  • 17.  RE: Example zero correlation implies independence

    Posted 08-10-2016 14:20

    quote, pp 153-154

    "We know also that in the family of the bivariate normal distribution, the condition p = 0 is equivalent to (X, Y) being independent. The equivalence is not valid if the distribution is not normal (except for the case of binary variables X and V). "

    I saw this and get confused...

    ------------------------------
    Sergio Yanez-Canal
    Universidad Nacional-Medellin